Apparent Regulator Failures

HardDriveUSA · March 17, 2009, 03:24:44 AM

Got the regulator changed out, cranked her up, and showed a little bit over 14 volts on meter. =) I'm glad that fixed it.
although it was harder to put back together than take apart.

Quote from: HardDriveUSA on February 26, 2009, 05:01:03 PM
19 pages to sift through...

But as far as I can tell I have a dead R/R
96, with 23k miles on it.

using the volt meter, there is hardly 1.0 anything, it's about 0.8 or so.

as far as I can tell the "bigger and better" group effort replacemet is still in development stages.
There has not been an agreed place to move the R/R to.

I still have my bad one if someone wants to "play" with a bad one.

so what do I look for if I wanted to pull one off a different bike?

I'm glad I didn't have the overcharging issue that some of you had. I had the undercharging issue.

hootmon · March 17, 2009, 06:06:56 AM

Quote from: HardDriveUSA on March 17, 2009, 03:24:44 AM
Got the regulator changed out, cranked her up, and showed a little bit over 14 volts on meter. =) I'm glad that fixed it.
although it was harder to put back together than take apart.

Congrats on the regulator..
Did you go with a used one (if so, do you know what year bike it came off of?)
Or did you get a new one, and if so where?
Technically a Regulator should put out about 14.7 volts, but 1) you meter is probably not calibrated 2) IF it truly is 14V, it's probably enough and you may get slightly longer battery life since the regulators do not shut off when the battery is full.

Thanx for the update!!!
Could we get you to put where your from in your profile??

HardDriveUSA · March 18, 2009, 01:36:20 AM

didn't remember exact numbers, it was a lil over 14. better than the 12v or so before.

A new one from bikebandit.com.

Is it not there? shall fix that =)

connor · March 18, 2009, 03:32:51 AM

Hello All,

Had a regulator/rectifier fail on me a few months back, it was overcharging. I was not happy with its original location beneath the battery where things get pretty hot.

I made myself a rear carrier rack and have bolted the new regulator to the underside of the rack where it is barely visible. I extended the wiring from the original regulators location and managed to run the new wires so they are not visible either. The rack is made of steel and this seems to act as a good heat shunt for the regulator.

When the bike is moving the regulator now gets a good supply of cooling air flowing over it. I did one further thing to assist keeping the regulators temperature down...I bolted the old regulator body up against the new one. So now it looks like a double decker regulator. The extra metal content and fins on the older regulator certainly aid in shunting heat away. If the bike is just left idling for, say, 30 minutes its possible to place your hand on the regulator and leave it there indefinitely..... and not lose any skin..!

After a run on the road the regulator is now barely warm to the touch.

hootmon · March 18, 2009, 05:50:39 AM

Quote from: connor on March 18, 2009, 03:32:51 AM
Hello All,

Had a regulator/rectifier fail on me a few months back, it was overcharging. I was not happy with its original location beneath the battery where things get pretty hot.

I made myself a rear carrier rack and have bolted the new regulator to the underside of the rack where it is barely visible. I extended the wiring from the original regulators location and managed to run the new wires so they are not visible either. The rack is made of steel and this seems to act as a good heat shunt for the regulator.

When the bike is moving the regulator now gets a good supply of cooling air flowing over it. I did one further thing to assist keeping the regulators temperature down...I bolted the old regulator body up against the new one. So now it looks like a double decker regulator. The extra metal content and fins on the older regulator certainly aid in shunting heat away. If the bike is just left idling for, say, 30 minutes its possible to place your hand on the regulator and leave it there indefinitely and not loose any skin.

After a run on the road the regulator is now barely warm to the touch.

Sounds great...

hootmon · March 18, 2009, 05:52:43 AM

Quote from: HardDriveUSA on March 18, 2009, 01:36:20 AM
didn't remember exact numbers, it was a lil over 14. better than the 12v or so before. A new one from bikebandit.com.

Is it not there? shall fix that =)

You should be good then.. I assume a Genuine Honda Regulator, made after 2001..

Dlcarrales · June 25, 2009, 11:57:09 AM

Conner,

Do you have any pictures of the where and how you mounted yours?

lragan · July 08, 2009, 04:46:02 PM

Today I got the bike back together. More on that on another thread. I rode in the heat, and tested the regulator in the new location per Jim Tindall's relocation, as cited at:

http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=3587.0

The comparison with the previous test, with the R/R in its stock position under the battery box is as follows:

Condition As Found Relocated
Before startup -- 29C 37C
After 3 min at 3000 rpm or less -- 57C 57C
Riding at 55 mph in 5th gear stabilizes at 66C 72C
Turned on 100 watts riding lights -- stabilizes at 65C 71C
When I slowed down to street traffic speed -- 73C 72C
Parked -- just stopped -- 76C 72C
After 3 minutes or so -- returned to bike - 57C 53C

Returned home -- ambient air ?? 39C

It is usually assumed that temperature rise is a linear phenomenon. If this be true, then the temperature rise to average highway running speeds is (66 - 29) = 37C in original location, but only (72 - 37) = 35C as relocated. Not much difference, and hardly worth the effort.

However, at slow speeds, relocation picks up 9 degrees. And the surge when you park drops from 47C to 35C. I don't know when the failures occur, but in one case, (Felicia's), it appeared to happen either in town after a long climb, or on startup after the bike had been parked.

The numbers above were taken with no saddlebags in place. I will try again tomorrow with saddlebags to see if there is a significant difference.

lragan · July 09, 2009, 03:29:00 PM

Today I made measurements with saddlebags in place. I was surprised at the difference, especially while traveling a 55 and 65 mph.

Condition As Found Relocated- No bags Relocated - with bags
Before startup -- 29C 37C 35C
After 3 min at 3000 rpm or less -- 57C 57C 57C
Riding at 55 mph in 5th gear stabilizes at 66C 72C 61C
Turned on 100 watts riding lights -- stabilizes at 65C 71C 61C
When I slowed down to street traffic speed -- 73C 72C 71C
Parked -- just stopped -- 76C 72C 71C
After 3 minutes or so -- returned to bike - 57C 53C N/A

Returned home -- ambient air ?? 39C 36C

There was a slight breeze today. The 61C cited above was with the wind from the left. When I turned around so the wind was from the right side, the temp dropped to 53C.

I was surprised that the bags improved the temperature rise this much. I ride with Leatherlyke bags, which stand off from the bike a couple of inches. The front of the bag must create an eddy, or otherwise somehow capture cooler air to flow over the R/R. With the same air temperature, the improvement (due to bags) at speed is about 8C.

There was no significant difference at low speed or idle.

My conclusions:

1) It is probably worth the trouble to relocate the R/R unit to the cooler location aft of the side panel.
2) At least with hard bags, you are better off to have the bags in place.
3) The R/R should be OK as long as you never slow down or stop

Sledge Hammer · July 09, 2009, 04:48:17 PM

Good data, Lawrence (I would expect nothing less from the master). So, once again, lack of airflow rears its ugly head, at least at low speed, which brings us back to cooling fans.

I am going to try to get a sample of a waterproof fan rated for outdoor use from one of my distributor contacts. Alternatively, if anybody wants to try to run the experiment before I do, Mouser sells ADDA P/N AQ1212HB-A71GL-LF http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvuXzJ9NcThauZgWwIac4iLLNNXfZVgSbA%3d, which should provide ample airflow over the R/R. Of course, a thermostat of some sort would need to be used.

Capt. Howard · July 09, 2009, 04:54:16 PM

Would be nice if someone had a connection to put one of these bikes in a wind tunnel and get an air flow chart on a stock bike....

lragan · July 09, 2009, 05:19:50 PM

Quote from: Capt. Howard on July 09, 2009, 04:54:16 PM
Would be nice if someone had a connection to put one of these bikes in a wind tunnel and get an air flow chart on a stock bike....

Gee, Captain, do you know anyone who actually owns a stock bike?

Half the fun is modifying it to your own tastes

As the above data show, the mods make a big difference.

lragan · July 09, 2009, 05:23:57 PM

Quote from: Sledge Hammer on July 09, 2009, 04:48:17 PM
Good data, Lawrence (I would expect nothing less from the master). So, once again, lack of airflow rears its ugly head, at least at low speed, which brings us back to cooling fans. I am going to try to get a sample of a waterproof fan rated for outdoor use from one of my distributor contacts. Alternatively, if anybody wants to try to run the experiment before I do, Mouser sells ADDA P/N AQ1212HB-A71GL-LF http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvuXzJ9NcThauZgWwIac4iLLNNXfZVgSbA%3d, which should provide ample airflow over the R/R. Of course, a thermostat of some sort would need to be used.

Mike, I am still dubious about mounting a fan on top (underneath, really in the stock position under the battery) of the R/R. There is not a lot of clearance to the swing arm. My fear is that I wouldn't even get off the ranch -- the first cattle guard would crush it.

TLRam1 · July 09, 2009, 05:30:26 PM

Lawrence,

Do I read this correctly, w/o the bags it runs cooler in it's original location while going down the road or with the lights on?

I would not mind trying the fan, would have to check clearances, I was looking for the thinnest fan. 25mm will equal an inch. If I had Lawrence's fancy do dad I could see how my added heat sink worked. I have one with a long probe, looks like it would get bent in the process.

Post up your photo of the probe you are using again.

lragan · July 09, 2009, 06:24:33 PM

Quote from: TLRam1 on July 09, 2009, 05:30:26 PM
Lawrence,

Do I read this correctly, w/o the bags it runs cooler in it's original location while going down the road or with the lights on?

I would not mind trying the fan, would have to check clearances, I was looking for the thinnest fan. 25mm will equal an inch. If I had Lawrence's fancy do dad I could see how my added heat sink worked. I have one with a long probe, looks like it would get bent in the process.

Post up your photo of the probe you are using again.

No, Terry, the data were taken with different ambient temperatures. The original data was on a 29C day, the last two were 37C and 35C respectively (at least as the tests began -- the temperature rose slightly each day).

I really should put together a spreadsheet showing the temperature rise above ambient for each of the tests -- those are the only numbers useful for comparisons.

New pictures are attached. The meter is carried in a tank bag, not shown.

It is a "K type" thermocouple meter. The paper clip holds the probe in place against the heat sink fin.

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