Apparent Regulator Failures

[Magnum Magna]

When that 12 year old comes walking down the street we would like to see pictures. 

[connor]

Hello Iragan....

I noticed on the original failed regulator that upon starting the engine the output voltage was steady at 14.8 volts at idle speed....however within a few minutes of engine running the voltage steadily but surely crept up to 18.7 volts and the regulators metal casing was then too hot to touch.

I left the bike standing for maybe an hour and then restarted it...initially voltage again was steady at 14.8 volts but it rapidly ascended again.

At the time my attention was drawn to a possible regulator problem because on starting from cold the engine ran perfectly...however within say 8 to 10 minutes of running on the road a misfire became apparent. It felt like the coils were starting to fire erratically

On returning to my workshop I checked the output voltage and sure enough it was up around 18.5 volts.  I then guessed this higher output was affecting the ignition system and thus causing the misfire. 

Have had similar problems in the past with customers cars when their alternators built in voltage control unit has failed. Have had cases where ignition coils and other electrical components have been damaged...ie radios, bulbs blown etc.

Am sure you will agree that this electrickery can sure be fun and cause problems..!!

Some years ago back in the UK I was a Patrolman with the AA..( Think you call it the AAA..) I attended a car breakdown where...the clutch cable..accelerator cable AND the choke cable had seized up.  All caused by one bad earth ( Negative ) connection to the cars body/chassis. Upon trying to start the cars engine the current sought alternative routes back to the battery negative terminal..clutch cable..acc' cable...choke cable. So much current flowed through them that they began to melt and eventually seized up completely.

The poor chap was pulling his hair out... I won't use the language he used...but suffice it to say that he was just a little peeved.

"All that caused by one bad ****ing connection...!" He yelled.

[lragan]

Connor, I don't know of any failures on our Magnas induced by high voltage, except the batteries.  Of course, after some time at the higher voltage, they boil dry and are, almost literally "toast", to use an American expression.  The other failure mode seems to be they just quit charging the battery which gradually discharges to the point the bike will no longer run, much less start.

Yes, I can easily see where the cable failures you document above would accrue if the battery ground (earth) connection fails -- starter current on a typical V-8 engine can reach 300 amps!

[roboto65]

Well at least we do not have to deal with Lucas electrics aka "The Prince of Darkness" 

[hootmon]

Well, my bike died on the way back from a 110 mile round trip tonight..
I noted the gauge lights looked dim..
I was running with two Harleys and 3 Honda's.. On a busy Highway (Not Freeway or Parkway, or whatever you call interstates in Texas).. After a couple of stop lights Just barely pulled the bike into a drugstore parking lot before the motor died (Dead Battery)..
I will perform testing Saturday morning, but it looks to be a regulator issue... Again... In the parking lot, I checked the connectors and all seems to be connected.
I will update once I know more...         

[TLRam1]

Well, my bike died on the way back from a 110 mile round trip tonight..
I noted the gauge lights looked dim..
I was running with two Harleys and 3 Honda's.. On a busy Highway (Not Freeway or Parkway, or whatever you call interstates in Texas).. After a couple of stop lights Just barely pulled the bike into a drugstore parking lot before the motor died (Dead Battery)..
I will perform testing Saturday morning, but it looks to be a regulator issue... Again... In the parking lot, I checked the connectors and all seems to be connected.
I will update once I know more...         

Well Hoot, I will leave you along when your down............

Oh the heck with it...you are Now on all the Harley forums being talked about the Honda that couldn't, the Honda, that needed help from a Harley no doubt, Harley's moving up in the world when Hondas are failing, this is good watercooler stuff, hang on Hoot, what, what is this ....I've just received 3 emails from Harley guys in Florida telling me what happened!

What do we do now, Hoot you have to get up by your boot straps and redeem yourself, fix it and tell the Harley guys your were pulling there leg for the fun of it, you really ran out of gas w/o those fancy gauges they have. 

Let us know what you find out.

[hootmon]

you are Now on all the Harley forums being talked about the Honda that couldn't, the Honda, that needed help from a Harley no doubt...

Well, I got to ride my 1st Harley today, a Road King... Oh, did I mention I was on the Back riding 817ch  with my wife riding her own bike behind us  ... Bet that was in the forum too...
BTW - The Harley was EVERYTHING I expected, and not what I had been told... We rode for about 10 miles... By the time we arrived, I was partially deaf in my right ear, and my right foot was numb from the vibration.. I had been told that the newer Harleys shook a lot at idle, but smoothed out when running at speed.. This does NOT discribe my experience..

[Charles S Otwell]

Dead batteries don't count, and there is no point in mentioning the regulator in mixed company, simply mention that it's what you get for not buying a Honda battery . At least that was my story .
  This has become a perpetual thread and there is no way I'm going back thru 15 pages to see if someone has already ask this question , but have we discussed whether or not this problem exist with other models of bikes, or have we just discussed the Magna R/R. The reason I'm asking is because the second hand R/R off the salvage 450 Honda Rebel that I put on mine is still working flawlessly and so is Guy Wheatley's. Could it be more of an internal design flaw than Placement on the Magna. Like I said, if this has already been discussed and eliminated, please disregard above babble..

[hootmon]

"have we discussed whether or not this problem exist with other models of bikes"
Charles;
It has been discussed.. It has also been forwarded that nobody has seen a 2000+ bike with a failure.
In my case, I replaced my regulator a few months back (again) the last regulator lasted about 4 years which I bought from Old Bike Barn. This regulator I moved the placement to behind the right side cover behind the passenger peg.. There are pictures in this thread if you care to go back and look..
I will be going out and performing checks to determine my exact issue.

[L J VFR]

Here is a liget question though...   How many owners of 2000+ year model bikes have 20,000 plus miles??   It may be the "I'm tired and don't want to work anymore" factor on older bikes.(regarding the R/R).  My bike has 14,000 on the odometer.  Mine could fail at 20,000 miles.. Who knows..  May be we need to compile a list (Terry)   of the year models, mileage of  failure and see if something resembles  of the bikes that have had faulty R/R.    IMO.

[TLRam1]

  May be we need to compile a list (Terry)   of the year models, mileage of  failure and see if something resembles  of the bikes that have had faulty R/R.    IMO.

I asked for the same reasons you mentioned and was doing this very list but only 2-3 people responded.

I will start another post or (If I can locate) resurrect my old post regarding this issue.

[hootmon]

OK.. The Regulator seems to be OK (per resistence measurements)..
The connector is NOT.. (See below).
One of the Green wire connectors got very hot and melted the plastic and turned the plastic from white to black... The connector had been damaged some previously, but not nearly this badly...
So expert speculators.. here you go..
1) the connection was already bad which caused more resistance which caused more heat which caused the connection to over heat and melt the plastic
2) there was too much current draw or produced by the regulator that overloaded the connector/wire which caused it to overheat and melt the plastic

Either way... Do I try to get two new connectors (male/female) and see if it happens again?
If I have to replace the connector anyways, should I swap it out to something better? If I do, then am I just going to move the failure into the wiring harness somewhere, IF a problem still exists?

Thank you in advance for your responses...

[lragan]

OK.. The Regulator seems to be OK (per resistence measurements)..
The connector is NOT.. (See below).
One of the Green wire connectors got very hot and melted the plastic and turned the plastic from white to black... The connector had been damaged some previously, but not nearly this badly...
So expert speculators.. here you go..
1) the connection was already bad which caused more resistance which caused more heat which caused the connection to over heat and melt the plastic
2) there was too much current draw or produced by the regulator that overloaded the connector/wire which caused it to overheat and melt the plastic

Either way... Do I try to get two new connectors (male/female) and see if it happens again?
If I have to replace the connector anyways, should I swap it out to something better? If I do, then am I just going to move the failure into the wiring harness somewhere, IF a problem still exists?

Thank you in advance for your responses...

I will gladly speculate to your questions, and I choose option 1).  If these connectors were functioning properly, overload would probably take out semiconductors, not connectors.  The indication that it was already damaged also points to this explanation as being most probable. 

It will be difficult to go back with stock connectors.  All these connector sets are assembled with tools made specially for that purpose.  If you don't have the proper tool, it will be tough to get it right.  If you need the quick disconnect feature intact, I would recommend looking into Molex connectors.  They have been around a very long time, and have a good record of reliability.  This series should do well for you:http://www.molex.com/molex/family/intro.jsp?superFamOID=-8810&pageTitle=Introduction&channel=Products&familyOID=-8623&chanName=family&frellink=Introduction.  Again, be sure to understand the tool requirements.

If you decide  you don't need the quick disconnect feature, I would use automotive end-on splicer sleeves of the right size, obtainable at any auto parts store.  You can probably buy a kit with the connectors and the suageing tool at Harbor Freight or Wall Mart.


Good luck.  Let us know what you decide to do.

[Charles S Otwell]

You can't beat solder and heat shrink.. eliminates any chance of another bad connection and it is easy enough to melt the solder if you need to, that's not a plug you need to disconnect very often is it?

[Sledge Hammer]

You're probably not going to be replacing a regulator by the side of the road or in a parking lot, so soldering it would certainly give you the best connection if you get a good solder joint. Still, I think I'd prefer a good quality connector such as Lawrence is recommending. After all, anything you do that takes the OEM connector out of the picture is going to leave you having to improvise if you do try to swap out the regulator on a road trip. Maybe a wire stripper and some good quality wire nuts should be in our portable tool kits for just such occasions.

By the way, Hootmon, any evidence of contact corrosion in that connector?