Several Magna performance questions.

[Solafide]

Hi I'm new to the Forum and have several questions about my 2002 magna.  I've tried the search option but i haven't found any specific answers.

First some background on the bike:
- It is in good condition with new tires chain, sprockets. 
- It has 18000 miles on it.
- I purchased it last fall with 15000 miles on it.
- It is getting very good fuel mileage compared to others.  (when i ride it hard (lots of starts in the 7000 - 9000 rpm range) I get between 100-120 miles before reserve, riding it easy keeping to 60mph and less and keeping the rpms down) I get between 125 - 135 miles before reserve.


Now. a few problems:

1.  The chain is very noisy (so was the one I took off, but i figured this was because it was so warn).  It is to the point that it is annoying and can be heard way over the engine.  I have checked my alignment as best I can, lubed it regularly, but nothing has helped.  Any ideas.

2.  My clutch doesn't seem to work well when properly adjusted.  If i have the proper amount of free play on the clutch lever, I gut rough shifting especially going into second (more then the "clunk").  If i start out strong in first and go into the upper rps before shifting it will often grind slightly going into second.  As the bike warms up the shifting worsens (it always shifts perfectly when cold).  If i adjust the lever so there is next to no free play this problem goes away (this is how it was adjusted when I got it).

Will i be damaging the clutch if i remove the free play?

3.  It does not seem to have near the same power as my friends 88 super magna.  His always wants to go right from the low rpms, where mine is a little sluggish until 6000 - 7000 rpms.  Was the super magnas just better performing, or is there something i need to adjust.  I'm going to check the air filter and plugs the first of the week, but i would think if they were a problem I wouldn't be getting such good gas mileage.  (could I need shims, would they make that much of a difference?)

4.  Also my low speed handling is not near as good as my friends super.  Mine seems top heavy and always wanting to lean one way or the other.  I noticed   my back tire is not the stock dunlop, but rather the 150 metzeler which is narrower.  Would this make a difference?


Sorry for so many questions, but I figured I would get them all out at once.

Thanks in advance.

[lragan]

You will get lots of answers from folks more experienced than I.  Listen to them, not me.  These are just my guesses:

1) I suspect either the front or back sprockets, or both, are worn beyond specification.  If the back one still has any flats left on the top of the teeth, it is probably the front one.   You have to remove the cover to get to the front sprocket.  They are not expensive.  I changed out the front one when I didn't need to, and paid about $25 for the replacement.  Still have the old one if you want it, as it appears to be in good condition.

2) First thing I would do about the clutch problem is change the oil.  Get a good motorcycle oil, not your standard oil for cages.  More info is available here: http://www.whitedoglubes.com/index.htm

3) When I bought my bike, it had a "flat spot" in the middle range of engine speed, just as yours does.  The previous owner had put on Cobra pipes, which made it run lean.  I performed the carb work described here: http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/tips.htm#A1.31, and it has run really well ever since.  Don't know if it could keep up with your buddy's Super or not, but it is much improved.

4) I haven't done it yet, but changing out the front springs for progressive springs is highly recommended for handling.  If you have the opportunity to put the bike on a lift, I would also check out the steering bearing to make sure it is smooth with no snags or rough spots. 

I think the Magna is the best bike ever.  It is for me.  Hope your like yours as much as I like mine.  Welcome to the group.

[Magnum Magna]

chain noise and power.

One way to check rear tire alinement is count threads on the alinement bolts.
I just changed my chain and it was fairly quit, but with new chain it is very quit. 

For your RPM / MPG you are really good.  I would count the teeth on both sprockets.
I believe it is 16/40 front /back. 

[Solafide]

1) I suspect either the front or back sprockets, or both, are worn beyond specification.  If the back one still has any flats left on the top of the teeth, it is probably the front one.   You have to remove the cover to get to the front sprocket.  They are not expensive.  I changed out the front one when I didn't need to, and paid about $25 for the replacement.  Still have the old one if you want it, as it appears to be in good condition.

I checked the chain and sprockets (both changed about 2000 miles ago)  The all look good.  I did notice that the Chain is on the tight side of the recommended tolerance, so I'm going to loosen it a little. 

Also The noise goes away if I am going down a hill, and let off the throttle.  On a straight away i can make it go away if I'm slowing down slightly, but if I am on the throttle enough to maintain my speed or to pick up speed the noise is there.

2) First thing I would do about the clutch problem is change the oil.  Get a good motorcycle oil, not your standard oil for cages.  More info is available here: http://www.whitedoglubes.com/index.htm

I have tried two oils - both from Honda.  There recommended oil, and their synthetic oil.  No difference with either.  Is there a consensus on what brand of oil to use?

3) When I bought my bike, it had a "flat spot" in the middle range of engine speed, just as yours does.  The previous owner had put on Cobra pipes, which made it run lean.  I performed the carb work described here: http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/tips.htm#A1.31, and it has run really well ever since.  Don't know if it could keep up with your buddy's Super or not, but it is much improved.

I will look more into this.  I have stock pipes, but the shims still might help.  I'm going to check the plugs to see if they indicate that its running lean.  If it is a noticeable improvement then it will be worth the $50.

4) I haven't done it yet, but changing out the front springs for progressive springs is highly recommended for handling.  If you have the opportunity to put the bike on a lift, I would also check out the steering bearing to make sure it is smooth with no snags or rough spots. 

I'll check the bearing.  Just to clarify it is only at low speed where there are steering issues.  My Bike handles at higher speed very well, and is IMHO much better then my friends Super magna.  It is when going slow and trying to keep a straight line.  As I slow down it is like it wants to tip.  In comparison the Super magna and my friends katana that i tried the same night, they both could comfortably stay upright at low speeds with out effort.

This isn't a big deal - I was just wondering if this is a characteristic of the 3rd generation, or something with my bike.  i have gotten somewhat use to it, and have learned to compensate, but if it could be improved I would give something a try.

For your RPM / MPG you are really good.  I would count the teeth on both sprockets.
I believe it is 16/40 front /back.

They are both the proper teeth numbers.  I'll see what happens when I loosen the chain a little.


Thanks for the input, I'll let you know what i find as I go For your RPM / MPG you are really good.  I would count the teeth on both sprockets.
I really like this bike, I just shouldn't have driven my friends Super!

[lragan]

I am not familiar with the bikes you are comparing low speed handling to.  But, what I do know is that the rake angle of the front fork controls the tradeoff between high speed and low speed stability.  You have no doubt seen the custom bikes with extreeeemely long forks so the front wheel is way out in front.  While they are very stable at high speed, they are very hard to manage at slow speeds, and difficult to hold up when still.  So, you might check the specs of your Magna against your friends' bikes. 

Sounds like you have tried all the easy stuff regarding the clutch and chain noise.  You will need better advice than I have to offer to solve these. 

Good luck, and good riding.

[Greg Cothern]

Chain noise can be caused by a # of things most of which have been listed already.  Chains are noisey but should not be louder than the engine and wind noise at speed...  I use a chain alignment laser, expensive but worth it in the long run!  If the alignment is off a bit it can cause side load on the sprockets making them noisy'er than normal.  I tend to keep mine a tad on the loose side to slow the "stretch" factor down some, but this is personal preference. 

Shims will help all 3rd gen Magna's!!!!  If ya stay completely stock atleast shim the needle's, if ya plan to change exhaust then you will need to look into jets (size depends on what exhaust and if you go with a K&N as well).  My first 96 Magna (now my son's) has stock exhaust with the resonators cut off the end plates, K&N, and 105 jets with shims on the needles.  Its still a bit lean, see pic.  The K&N flows a lot of air, before the K&N it was a the rich side, we plan on installing 107.5 main jets, should do the trick.

The Super has a bit more rake on the front, it actually should be a bit heavier steering feel due to this, atleast my Super was vs my 96...  Tires can effect this as well, the narrower Metz will make turn in rate (willingness to lean) quicker!  A wider tire will give more grip and slow this down as well.  Not knowing anything about  your friends Super makes it hard to judge the two.  My 87 Super was a strong runner, fairly equal to the 3rd gen I previously owned and the current one I own as well.  Many things can effect the "quickness" of a bike, including but not limited too: Bike Pilot, Tires, Carb adjustments, engine work, fuel quality, air cleaner new/old, etc etc etc.

The 3rd gen Magna's all have a bit of a clunk going from 1st to second gear, its how the trans gears are cut, should try my Valk hehehe.  Keep running the synthetic MC specific oil it should get a bit better with more miles and changes.  Atleast that was my experience..  If you run the clutch too tight it will drag and thus wear out the plates quicker, so keep a little bit of lever play.




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[TLRam1]

Check your front tires air pressure, low will cause the front to fell heavy and want to fall in the direction leaned or turned at slow speeds.

[Solafide]

I took a little time tonight to try to look into things a little more.

On the chain noise I did an alignment again.  this time I did not go by the wear marks, but rather used the "string method."  According to the chain wear marks I am off by one line, but it seemed to help the noise problem.  (should I trust the string method over the factory lines?)

When I first started I was very optimistic there was zero noise.  after about two minutes the noise came back but not near as loud.  What seems weird to me is that it only makes the buzzy sound when I'm on the throttle.  Anyway it is some better.

Many things can effect the "quickness" of a bike, including but not limited too: Bike Pilot, Tires, Carb adjustments, engine work, fuel quality, air cleaner new/old, etc etc etc.

Pilot was the same, tires should be fine, I will be checking the air filter when I get a chance. 
As to fuel - I know he uses supreme and I use regular.  I used the high octane fuel once and got my worst ever mileage, so I never bothered again.  Maybe I will give it another try.

I did take out one plug tonight and it did not look like your picture.  It was more of a coffee color (with very little milk in it).
comparing it to this list in the link bellow, it would be closest to the second picture down.
http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/diagnosis.htm

It was not as bad as the one pictured, but more like that than any of the other pictures by far.

I used this bike late in the season last year and early this year - so lots of cold starts with the choke (several times bellow freezing as I live in Canada).  I guess I should replace these.  What plugs do you recommend?

Check your front tires air pressure, low will cause the front to fell heavy and want to fall in the direction leaned or turned at slow speeds.

I have been keeping my front tire at 36 pounds as the manual says so I think I'm ok there.

[Greg Cothern]

I would go with the results, the string is a good one to go with, maybe adjust it a bit more to make the noise go away.  Not sure if you took note of the cahnge in angle direction?  If so just go a tiny bit more in that direction.

I would stick with the low or mid grade octane fuel, not enough compression to really take advantage of the higher octane.

If you plug is lighter than that of the second PIC by a tiny bit then you are good on mains, however the shims will improve the 3-4500 rpm range your noticing is anemic..

Only use the choke just enough to get it running and on the throttle then turn choke off.  I would continue to use the plugs you have and check em in another 1000 miles and see how they look then at them again.

If you have Dunlops then the 36 is correct if you have Metzelers then go with 40 in front and 42 in rear.  You have to go with the tire manufactuers pressure suggestions, as the owners manual goes with the stock Dunlop tire recommendation.

[Smoked U]

How close are you to Dallas, Texas?

[Solafide]

How close are you to Dallas, Texas?

About 3511km (2181.6).  I have family in Fort Worth, but I don't plan on being there this summer.

[Curtis_Valk]

4.  Also my low speed handling is not near as good as my friends super.  Mine seems top heavy and always wanting to lean one way or the other.  I noticed   my back tire is not the stock dunlop, but rather the 150 metzeler which is narrower.  Would this make a difference?

In a word..........YES.  I bought one Metz 150 and HATED it.  When I put it on and made my first right hand turn I though I was going to end up on the sidewalk.  I got used to it but still did not like the feeling the bike was wanting to flop over if leaned.  At less than 2000 miles on the tire, I got a puncture and tossed the tire instead of fixing it and went back to Dunlop.  For some reason the closest to stock size Metzeler is the 180/70.  I may have been happy with the Metz in that size but never got the chance to try one.

The only real complaints I had with the low speed handling of the 3rd Generation Magna is the herky-jerky first gear and the lack of turning radius.  It always seemed like the handlebars were hitting the stop too soon in low speed (parking lot) turns.

Curtis

[Solafide]

In a word..........YES.  I bought one Metz 150 and HATED it.  When I put it on and made my first right hand turn I though I was going to end up on the sidewalk.  I got used to it but still did not like the feeling the bike was wanting to flop over if leaned.  At less than 2000 miles on the tire, I got a puncture and tossed the tire instead of fixing it and went back to Dunlop.  For some reason the closest to stock size Metzeler is the 180/70.  I may have been happy with the Metz in that size but never got the chance to try one.

The only real complaints I had with the low speed handling of the 3rd Generation Magna is the herky-jerky first gear and the lack of turning radius.  It always seemed like the handlebars were hitting the stop too soon in low speed (parking lot) turns.

This is good to know.  I'm getting use to it, but I will definitely get a dunlop when the time comes.

If you plug is lighter than that of the second PIC by a tiny bit then you are good on mains, however the shims will improve the 3-4500 rpm range your noticing is anemic..

I'll look into getting the shims.  Right now I'm just enjoying a quieter ride!


Thanks for all the help/information you all have been giving. 

[Smoked U]

How close are you to Dallas, Texas?

About 3511km (2181.6).  I have family in Fort Worth, but I don't plan on being there this summer.

Well, I guess we won't be seeing you at our wrench session then.

[Solafide]

Well, I guess we won't be seeing you at our wrench session then.

Not likely

Well after fine tuning the alignment here is what I've found:

1.  On Chain noise - things are much improved.  I can only hear it a little bit at 35 mph and below when it is warmed up, and I am on the throttle.  It almost blends into the engine noise at this speed, but I still can here it.  Once I go faster the wind/engine noise drowns it out.  This is a major improvement!  Before it was so loud that guys I rode with could hear it over their bikes engine!  I might try to tweak the alignment a little more when I get the time, but I think I have it about as close as I can get.


2. On the clutch - specifically grinding when going into second at times.  For some reason the alignment/chain adjustment seemed to help here as well.  It shifts much more smoothly (no grinding noise in two days of riding).



3.  On the low power issue, I haven't changed the plugs yet - but I have been riding it much harder and in the higher rpms.  This seems to have improved things quite a bit.  It starts with no choke, and I don't have to give it throttle to start it when it is cold.  The lower rpms has more power, and the bike does not feel as sluggish.  I will still install the shims at a latter date - but the take off feels much better now.

As  side note - Riding it harder like this is so much fun, that it is going to be hard to tame it down!!


4.  On the handling issue.  This is more subjective, but I swear that it handles better at lower speeds after the alignment - cornering is the same, but taking a straight line at low speeds seems to be much smoother.  I don't feel like I'm fighting the bike like before.  This could be a placebo effect, but I really don't think so.  I tried riding tests that I did before the alignment, and post alignment it was much easier to keep the bike in a straight line at low speeds (this really helps in slow traffic).  It is still more tippy than my friends Super magna, but I suspect just the result of the narrow tire.



It is weird to me that the alignment could be off as much as it was.  This could be a warning to others that the chain wear guide marks might not be accurate (not even close in my case).


I am enjoying this bike so much more after these adjustments - thank you all very much for your help.