Stuck in gear!

[silveradocowboy]

Any updates on the trans. yet?

[breckel]

Decided on splitting the case before committing to an entire new transmission.  Waiting on a stator puller from Honda, just made the clutch nut tool the other day, and should have the engine out of the frame by tomorrow.  Progress!  Thanks for the leads/ideas.

[breckel]

Well, I found the source of the problem, kind of.  The shaft that the shift forks rides on (4) is sliding from inside the transmission case, out towards the shifter mechanism (16ish), right below the shifting star (7).  The shift arm gets caught on the shaft, preventing it from engaging the shifting star.  [see attached]

Any ideas as to what to do next?  I guess I am going to proceed with splitting the case, unless this is a known/experienced issue that somebody can solve sans removing the motor.  For those who know much about transmissions, what is it that keeps the shift fork shaft from sliding?  What holds it in?

Thanks, bye for now.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[TLRam1]

I have not had to do many transmissions, this is one from a year or more back, Not the bike you are working on.

I think the case is held one side in, mostly I can't remember, Jeff might be able to help, had to replace first gear as one tooth broke off. 

[silveradocowboy]

I'm not going to be much help since this is an area I've never had to deal with so far .... knock on wood.... If someone doesn't come up with an answer you might contact Dave Dodge and see what he has to say.

[breckel]

I have the engine out of the frame, and proceeding to split the case.  I am in the middle of removing the camshafts, but ran into a snag.  The manual says to turn the alternator till the correct marks line up with the case, and then remove the bolts from the camshaft sprockets.  This was not a problem for the back sprockets, but with the bolts removed, I turned the engine to gain access to the front sprocket bolts, and the rear sprockets fell off of the shoulders.  Now, even with the chain free from bunching, I can't turn the engine over again.  Is it just the pressure in the cylinder?  What do I need to do to be able to remove the front sprockets?

Thanks,
Alex

[silveradocowboy]

If the chain stayed on the sprockets it is unlikely the chain is binding on the crankshaft so it may be cylinder pressure or the trans got bumped into gear. Remove the spark plugs if you haven't already and see if that helps.

[breckel]

Problem solved!  After taking it to my brother's garage, staring at it, and drinking more beer, we found it.  The problem was caused by a small compression fitted cap in the end of the shaft that the shift forks run on.  It had backed itself out about 1/16th inch towards the shift fork, causing interference.  All it took was tapping it back in the shaft.  Fortunately, we didn't end up having to split the case, though I did run into a problem.

The cam sprockets were not messed with on the rear cylinders, but I had removed the bolts on the front sprockets, failing to mark the sprockets/chain.  Trying to folly the Clymer is not helping much.  We followed the steps, and it seems that you have to put cam pressure on the valves to align the guide marks on the sprockets for remounting the chain/sprockets.  Currently, we see no way this is possible, though we haven't yet removed tension from the tensioner. 

First, what is the easiest way to hold pressure of of the chain tensioner?  Second, how the heck are we supposed to remount the sprockets, in time, with minimal headache?

Thanks for all the help!

-Alex

[dgc67]

Maybe this will help you some.  I know it is for replacing the tensioner, but it seems to cover what your needing.
http://www.carlparker.com/how2/V4tensioners.html

[silveradocowboy]

First, what is the easiest way to hold pressure of of the chain tensioner?  Second, how the heck are we supposed to remount the sprockets, in time, with minimal headache?

The tensioner is spring loaded so you will need to pin it back through the small hole with a piece of wire, coat hanger, or something similar, just don't drop it into the engine.

I was thinking all the V65's had timing marks, dashes I believe, they should line up with the heads when the timing mark is at 1-3 IIRC. See if the Clymers manual has a picture comparing how the cams are aligned in relationship to each other when set at the timing mark on the flywheel. If it does have that picture use an angle gauge of some sort and try matching the angle to set the cams and then bolt the sprockets on. Once this is done you can pull the pin out of the chain tensioner.

[silveradocowboy]

I forgot that the timing mark may also be a stamped dot.

Attaching a pic of the cams in a VF700C...

[attachment deleted by admin]

[breckel]

Thanks for the help!

Got the cams back in, timing chain on, valve covers on, engine in the bike....  it's coming along!

The write up for the cam chain tensioner was invaluable, thank you.

I'll keep posting progress, I would love to get this thing running!  Anybody want a V65 with low miles?!?!

[breckel]

NNNOOOO!!!!

Well, I was about ready to put the engine in the frame, and my brother pointed out that the rear exhaust hasn't gone on yet (Thanks Clymer!).  We set out doing that, and saw that the torque specs for the flange is listed as 13-20 ft lbs.  Though we both thought that sounded a little high, we dialed in the wrench to 17.5 and torqued away.  Low and behold, we busted a stud.  It's one of the studs closer to the center line, with less clearance.  We didn't have enough thread to double lock nuts on it, so we decided to go the welding route.  Using our resources at the Ford dealership across the highway, we had a way too underskilled welder weld the nut on.  The metal is all over the sides of the nut, and I now need to grind it off to grab it with a wrench.  I was thinking that maybe there is something like a mini pipe wrench?  That self tightens, and doesn't need nice neat edges.

I was wondering:
a) if somebody has a suggestion on getting this stud out, and
b) why the heck did I bust a stud?!?!  Did I read it incorrectly?  Is it printed wrong?

Thanks for the help! 

[roboto65]

Well with all due respect it is or might be a 20 something year old stud and how many times has it been torqued down over the years LOL not sure how to get it out maybe a trip to a Harbor Freight is in order they have all kind tools and maybe a smallPipe wrench sorry about the stud Murphys Law has struck again !!!

[lragan]

I am partial to "easy out" type screw extractors, myself.  A few sizes should suffice for most jobs.  You grind the end of the busted stud/bolt/screw/whatever flat, drill the recommended hole into the center of the stuck item, lock the extractor in a tap wrench, and twist it counterclockwise into the stud.  I tightens and grips from the inside of the stud.  Usually backs right out.  No welding involved. 

My guess on the reason for the busted stud is that the threads on either or both surfaces were corroded or otherwise compromised.  I don't hesitate to use a little WD-40 or penetrating oil in these situations, let it sit for a few hours, gently put the parts together hand tight, remove them and clean the crud off with a paper towel or shop towel.  Repeat this process a few times and the specified torque will usually serve you well.

Exhaust header studs are notorious for this problem, by the way.  The high temperatures alternating with moisture condensation make corrosion almost a given.  I lost count of the number I have busted off over the years.  I usually break them taking the headers off, but I have popped more than one on the return trip.

Good luck with it.  Let us know what you do and how it works out.