any advice on replacing 1st Gen fork seals?

[dgc67]

I am about to replace my fork seals on my 84 V45.  I have only done this once before, a long time ago on a 1980 Suzuki GS450.  Any advice/warnings I should be aware of?  I have a Chilton's shop manual but have not read through the process just yet.  Probably still 2 weekends away from having the time to do it.

[hootmon]

On my 3rd Gen I got the seals at a Bearing and Seal shop at 1/2 the price... If you have one near by, it may be worth the trip (I was buying front bearings anyways)... I did by Honda Dust covers though...

[TPV65]

I haven't done this myself (disclaimer).  I believe this information was taken off the MagSab web site I have it saved as a word document for reference.  It may be some help.

A large number of Magna and Sabre owners have had to replace their fork seals. A typical life is about 40k - 50k miles.

I had a bad leak on one of my old V45 fork seals. I removed the entire fork arm from the bike (fairly simple bolt-out procedure), but could not find a tool to remove the heavy ring clip which is recessed into the fork slider, and thus I could not remove the seal. Plus, I've heard that even with the right tool, the clip can be very difficult to remove. I brought the fork tube only to my local dealer, who then sold me a seal kit for $20, and charged me $24 to install. Some other dealers quoted me over $200 for an entire fork seal job on the bike. Others have reported paying around $150 -$180 for a complete seal job.
The reason my seal failed, was because there was a small rust pit, a tiny spot where the chrome had become raised, on the fork tube. This protrusion cut a notch in the seal, causing a big leak. The dealer tried to sell me a whole new tube, but instead, I carefully ground the raised spot down with a file, then polished it until extremely smooth. Though there resulted a tiny pit/hole on the tube, the new seal worked fine, and lasted a long time until I sold the bike, zero leakage. Tip: keep the fork tubes clean and waxed.
David Hickey also had a similar fork seal failure experience, caused by pits on the tube. He nearly purchased a new $225 tube, but instead had a mechanic emery cloth the old tube. A new seal was installed on the old tube, and 15k later, the seal is still fine.


If you look at the area where the fork tube goes into the fork slider, there is a rubber "seal". This is not the fork seal, but just an external "dust seal". Below that, on `83 and early `84 models (maybe `82 V45s also), there is a secondary "sponge/foam seal" and plastic washer. Then comes the actual fork oil seal. My dealer told me that there was a service bulletin issued that says to remove and discard the "sponge/foam seals" (and plastic washers too) if you have them, since they collect dirt and trap it near the oil seals. Then, I noticed in the Clymer repair manual, it stated to indeed remove and discard these "sponge/foam" seals, and for the reason: "the foam seal may work it's way down into the oil seal and give the appearance of a worn or leaking oil seal". I'm not sure exactly what they mean by that, but I suppose if you have an `83 or `84, and you note that you have these "foam/sponge" seals under the dust seals, remove them. Though I'm not certain, it may be possible to remove the unwanted foam seals without disassembling the fork. Perhaps pop the dust seal off and slide it up out of the way, then pick out the foam seal, cut it, and remove it. Has anyone tried?
Another tip to prolong the life of your seals, is to keep fork air pressure low. You may enjoy the stiffer handling produced by high air pressure, but it puts a strain on the seals. I once bought a used Magna, seals appeared fine for the first several days of riding. After observing zero psi in the forks, I added about 6 psi to stiffen the front, and the seals started leaking immediately.
Chuck Jenke recommends using rubber foam boots by Naj that cover the fork tube, to keep dirt/bugs off, etc.
I make it a point to clean the fork tubes often, especially during long high speed trips through buggy areas. Splattered bug guts can become surprisingly hard and abrasive once dry.
If you are changing the fork oil seals yourself, the MagSab page offers the following tip: instead of buying an expensive fork seal driver tool from Honda, you can make your own seal tool from a piece of PCV pipe. For V45s (39mm fork tubes), use 1.5" pipe. For V65s (41mm fork tubes), get a 2" pipe with a 1.5" coupler, then grind or rasp the coupler down so it will fit inside the fork body, and use a piece of 2" on top.

[dgc67]

I got the seals at a Bearing and Seal shop at 1/2 the price

Have already bought them, but do appreciate the advice.

TP,
Thanks for you input as well.  I do have a tool for removing c-clips, hopefully this will do it.  If not I will try what you did.  I know of repair shop not far from my house who just might do it cheaper since I will have the forks disassembled already.

I also got the sintered brake pads, as I have read on here people being pretty happy with those.  I am hoping I can get my bike in decent enough condition soon so I won't be embarrased to go on one of the rides with you guys.  Right now it is pretty rough still especially looks wise.

[lragan]

The only thing that should embarrass you is staying home because you might be embarrassed!!

[dgc67]

You might notice the lack of pictures of my bike.     You guys have such nice looking ones.  I have no doubt, well not much doubt  that you guys won't laugh at me on how my bike looks and sounds.  My budget since I bought it has only allowed me to do what was absolutely needed to keep it reliable to get to work and back.  Recently things are better for me and I want to get it cleaned up some.  The extent that my front seals have been leaking alone is enought not to go on a long, spirited ride.  Honestly, this weekend's ride sounds like fun, but embarrasment aside I am in Kansas on business this week, returing to Houston Friday night.  No way my wife will let me take off on Saturday for a ride when she has been home alone with all 3 kids (12, 10 and all week doing the whole school and work things.   

[lragan]

OK -- you are excused -- this time!!

[Curtis_Valk]

You might notice the lack of pictures of my bike.     You guys have such nice looking ones. 

Don't let these reprobates fool ya, their bikes were only clean ONCE and that's when they took the picture!! 

Curtis

[dgc67]

I know what I will do.  I will wait till just after sundown and then back off about 20 yards and take a pic with my phone and post it!   

Oh, and on my post with my kids ages, that  was supposed to be the 3rd one's age of "8" but it thinks that the # 8 followed by a ) is the cool face!  LOL

[dgc67]

OK.  My plan is to tackle this tomorrow.  I was reading the Chilton's manual last night and talks of using a soft vice to hold the tubes while removing/replacing bolts.  Do I HAVE to take the tubes off to do this?  Also, it says to put in DEXRON auto tranny fluid and makes a comment that if you want you can use fork oil.  It says that once and then references the DEXRON every time oil is mentioned after that.  Thoughts on that?
Honestly, after reading the process I am a little intimidated.  I don't want to get into an entire day project as I have been invited to ride Saturday afternoon and really want to go.

[dgc67]

One more, okay 2 more things.
1.  What size pcv do I use to make the tool for installing the seal?  I remember a post saying to cut a piece down the middle and use it.

2.  How do I get the air in it without using a compressor?  I have tried before with a bike pump and could not pump it.

[TLRam1]

Yes the older bikes used transmission fluid for the forks and many people still do. The old bikes use to come with a nasty fish oil from Japan and the dealer was suppose to change before a customer took possession. Because the oil stunk so bad many dealers didn't change the fish oil out for other oil. My older bikes call for 10W30 motor oil or transmission fluid so you can use about anything you want. 

I had a post with items to use for the 3rd gen bike w/o having to cut up PVC. It depends on the size of your sliders. If you have a mic, measure the diameter of your sliders and than measure the inside of pipe at the hardware store to find something that will go over your sliders (top section of your forks that slides down into your tubes). PVC is cut to give it extra room to fit over your sliders.

I didn't know those forks were pressurized....I would not use a high pressure compressor.

[TLRam1]

Here is the link and what I used. You need all three pieces as the last small piece was put on to easily seat the seal.  It's not hard you can do it and be ready to ride later that day.

http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=1530.msg11226#msg11226

[dgc67]

Thank you sir!!