Turkey, Chains and sprockets

[Len Averyt]

Well first off, want to wish everyone a happy thanksgiving. The turkey part of the post. ha ha
I'll be changing my sprockets and chain on turkey day. Got a pretty good deal on the set off Ebay.

Item title: Honda VF750C Magna/Deluxe 1994-04 Chain/Sprocket Set
Seller User ID: sledpartsguy
Total: $126.96, shipping included

I bought this Saturday night and received it today, I was suprised at how fast it was shipped.

The kit comes with a Factory 2.5:1 Ratio sprocket set.
16 Tooth Drive
40 Tooth Driven
118 Links of 530 UO (KMC) brand o-ring chain
1 master link

Quality looks good on the parts. Guess time will tell. Anyone used this brand chain before?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Curtis_Valk]

Clip master link or bradded?

Curtis

[Len Averyt]

Unfortunatly a clip type.
I'll put it on the right way.
Wonder if it can be bradded?
It came with orings and a pack of grease.

[hootmon]

Unfortunately a clip type.
I'll put it on the right way.
Wonder if it can be bradded?

OK... Let's have this discussion...
I do understand that a clip type "could" come apart and that you put the clip so if it hits anything as it goes round it forces the clip on, instead of off. BUT, it also gives the advantage of being able to fairly easily remove the chain for maintenance.
What other factors am I missing???
I have a Bradded type and it is the one spot in my chain that tends not to flex easily giving me a tight spot.. I don't think that would happen with a clip type, and if it did, I could easily take it apart and clean and lube it and eliminate the issue.
Do clip types wear faster than Bradded because it doesn't hold as tightly? (weak spot in the chain?)
Has anyone had the experience of a clip type coming apart (when you didn't want it to?)

Thanx in advance for your thoughts/concerns.

[magnagregcan]

I've only ever used the clip type links on my chains, and have only had the clips come off twice, on my existing chain.

This was due to faulty install by ME, and once I saw the mistake I fixed it.

The link is in there pretty tight, with the plate squeezed onto the pins of the link.

They are a bear to put on and take off. They have to be pressed on with quite a bit of force.

Lucky for me, the plate did not come off when the clip did, and I had to press the plate off anyway to break the chain.

It's an ideal setup, as you say, to remove the chain (during winter storage) to clean, inspect for damage, and lube.

I did not get the staked link for the simple reason that the Honda teck said they install them with a hammer and solid steel object in behind to mash it all together. Not very professional or safe in any case. There are specifications on the size and depth the pin has to be deformed in order to hold the side plate on, and I don't know of anyone anywhere that has aluded to this fact on any of these sites!

[roboto65]

I have always staked mine but I also have the tool as for the specs on how far it should be crimped it is in the manual but I always crimp the c#$% out of it and that had held so far Felicia had the KBC brand and I had a staked link here at the house and it worked perfect want to say it was a DID link

[Curtis_Valk]

I have a Bradded type and it is the one spot in my chain that tends not to flex easily giving me a tight spot..

It was installed wrong, plain and simple.  If done right they don't bind.  As Magnagregcan alluded to, even the Honda techs take "unprofessional" short cuts sometimes.

Curtis

[hootmon]

If done right they don't bind.  Curtis

But if it does, there is little you can do about it.. Any other negatives about a clip type?

[Curtis_Valk]

Lucky for me, the plate did not come off when the clip did, and I had to press the plate off anyway to break the chain.

Wow, how did you know the clip was missing?  Pre-ride inspection?

I did not get the staked link for the simple reason that the Honda teck said they install them with a hammer and solid steel object in behind to mash it all together. Not very professional or safe in any case. There are specifications on the size and depth the pin has to be deformed in order to hold the side plate on, and I don't know of anyone anywhere that has aluded to this fact on any of these sites!

Wise decision.  Even though I'm of the staked masterlink camp I would rather have a properly installed clip type than an improperly installed staked master link.  I have been party to the pin deformation spec discussion either here or on MRF ...........or maybe it was at a wrench session when we were staking the masterlink with a chain tool.

Curtis

[Curtis_Valk]

If done right they don't bind.  Curtis

But if it does, there is little you can do about it.. Any other negatives about a clip type?

Sure there is ..........buy a new master, grind/press the old one off and install the new one correctly (clip or staked, I'm leaving the choice to whomever).

Any other negatives???  The ONE about the chain coming off is enough to tip the scales for me.  That's my personal choice though and I'll not try to tell anyone what is right for them.  Of course, both my bikes have shaft drive (doesn't stop me from spouting my opinion though ha ha ha ha).

The way I see it, there are three possible outcomes when you throw a chain.  1.  The chain spits out the back and goes sliding harmlessly toward the side of the road (whew).  2.  The chain wraps around the driven sprocket (potentially catastrophic to your health and welfare, definately time for new BVDs).  3.  The chain binds in the area of the front sprocket  (potentially catastrophic to the mechanical integrity of your final drive, depending on the bike's construction a busted engine case can result).

To me, not worth the risk however small that I'll "snooze" the proper installation of the clip.  I have known myself to make simple mistakes at times.

Curtis

[hootmon]

buy a new master, grind/press the old one off and install the new one correctly (clip or staked, I'm leaving the choice to whomever).
Any other negatives???  The ONE about the chain coming off is enough to tip the scales for me.  To me, not worth the risk however small that I'll "snooze" the proper installation of the clip.  I have known myself to make simple mistakes at times.

I remember my dad, being an old Air Force mechanical guy, took a small piece of wire and wrapped it around the masterlink holding the clip in place. It never seemed to wear because of the sprocket rub.. Just a thought..
Since I have 20+K on my chain.. I don't think I'll go through the trouble of working on the masterlink at this point..
Where do you get just masterlinks from anywayz...

[Smoked U]

I haven't had it on for a long time (maybe 6 months), but the EK screw type master link that I used on Baby Vee was the easiest thing to put on. It runs about $ 16.00. Nice and clean.

[Curtis_Valk]

Hoot,

Where do you get just masterlinks from anywayz...

I'm sure any vendor who handles chains can get just the master link.

Going back to one of your earlier comments:

Do clip types wear faster than Bradded because it doesn't hold as tightly? (weak spot in the chain?)

All the clip does is hold the side rail of the master link in place, same as staking.  The load bearing surfaces are the pins, so if each design is of equal quality there should be no difference in strength or wear characteristics.

Referring back to your comments on chain maintenance, there may have been an advantage to removing the chain before o-ring chains were invented.  Old style chains needed lube to "soak in" to get to the wear surfaces inside where the pins go through the links.  An old school method was to buy two chains and keep one soaking in 90 wt oil then swap them out periodically.  A clip type master link was definately necessary to use this method of increasing chain life.

Now that we have permanently lubricated o-ring type chains, the only thing to be done is to keep the chain clean and rust free.  No amount of lubing will get any lubricant past the o-rings where the main wear surfaces are.  By the same token though, the factory lube that is inside the o-rings should stay in for the life of the chain.  O-ring chains can be harmed by solvents which swell, soften or otherwise degrade the integrity of the o-ring seal however, so be careful what you clean with.  All of the discussion on what lube to use or what method (auto-oilers, etc) are pretty much secondary since all they are accomplishing is to keep the outside of the chain rust free.  If allowed to rust or get extremely gritty, the area where the plates contact (which is a wear area but not load bearing) can get galled or "sticky" and your chain will go thump thump as the stiff link tries to bend around the sprocket.

Lucky for everyone I'm tired of typing and it's time to go eat some turkey!!

Curtis

[lragan]

Curtis, thanks for the explanation.  Understanding it leaves me less worried about using "chain wax" instead of the Honda recommended 90W oil. 

I presume the O-rings are Neoprene?  Knowing the composition will help in choosing a cleaner.  I have been using diesel fuel, just because it is handy and leaves an oily film.

[Len Averyt]

I'm almost more concerned about the quality of the chain itself than the master link.
Seems like most recommendations I've read elsewhere lean toward DID brand chain. Which is what is on the magna right now.

I haven't had it on for a long time (maybe 6 months), but the EK screw type master link that I used on Baby Vee was the easiest thing to put on. It runs about $ 16.00. Nice and clean.

I would like to change to ether the staked or this screw type.
Where did you find the EK screw type.

What worries me is mixing brands. I'm sure "most" chain is identical but i would guess some difference from manufacturer to manufacturer could cause a faster wear area or a weaker spot? just a few thousands of an inch difference from brand to brand could cause this.