Regulator Modification

[Magnum Magna]

A friend reconditioned the battery so I could put the old battery back in to see if it still does it.

Talking with a co-worker he suggested if we are relocating the regulator we should consider running dual regulators. One in the original location and the relocated one.  Just wire them in parallel.  It will remove a lot of stress off the regulator.  That would give us a little more power for a few more accessories.  Not unlimited number of accessories because the stator is not increased just removing stress off the regulator. 

[TLRam1]

Robert if you want to come by and check your bike out bring it over. If you currently add accs it will take stress off your regulator. Adding another regulator, maybe it will dissipate the heat better, not sure here. My second Magna acts like yours does, I thought the same, checked it out and all appears ok. 

[Magnum Magna]

Terry you are correct it will disperse the dissipation of heat between the two.  Most being utilized at the point of higher revving of the engine.

This weekend we have plans for fathers day but next weekend should be good if it is good for you.

[lragan]

It would surprise me if running regulators in parallel will work.  There are voltage "sensors" in each one which decide how much current to pass.  While they are the same design, they are sort of like women -- no two are exactly alike.  In all likelihood,  one of the two will do most of the work, and the other will sit back and do little or nothing.

After reviewing the schematic, and after making careful measurements, I do not believe that adding accessories will reduce the thermal load in the regulator/rectifier.  If it would, then turning on my 120 watts of running lights should reduce the operating temperature.  It does not.

The alternator can be viewed as a source of current.  It is not a voltage source.  The current it puts out goes through diodes to the battery/electrical system, or through silicon controlled rectifiers (SCRs) to ground.  The voltage drop through these devices are similar, and this voltage drop times the current is the power dissipated in the unit.  So it doesn't make much difference what the accessory load is.  Depending on the particular choice of diode and SCR, it may actually go up a bit through the diodes, in which case the dissipation would increase with load.  In my unit, at least, there is no measurable change in temperature with load.

[hootmon]

Here is what Lawrence said...

It would surprise me if running regulators in parallel will work.  Blah Blah voltage "sensors" Blah Blah Blah Blah .  While they are Blah Blah Blah Blah  sort of like women -- no two are exactly alike.  In all likelihood,  one of the two will do most of the Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah .

After reviewing the Blah Blah Blah Blah , I do not Blah Blah  accessories will reduce the Blah Blah Blah Blah .  If it would, then Blah Blah running lights Blah Blah Blah Blah .

The alternator can be viewed as Blah Blah Blah Blah .  The current Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah .  In my unit, at least, there is no measurable change in temperature with load.

Just joking Lawrence..
Thanx for the insightful in depth analysis and testing which resulted in profound conclusions..

[Magnum Magna]

While they are the same design, they are sort of like women -- no two are exactly alike.  In all likelihood,  one of the two will do most of the work, and the other will sit back and do little or nothing.

I agree the load will not be equal I would guess a realist worst outcome will be 80 / 20.  But I would expect better than 60 / 40.

Just a guess.

[Len Averyt]

We design power supplies that are redundant and have to be setup specially to share loading. normal powersupplies don't like too.
As Lawrence suggested one unit ends up doing most of the work so dual regulators is a crapshoot.

The regulators dissipate the unneeded energy to ground creating heat.
When more energy is needed then they conduct the energy to the system still creating heat.

What I would worry about would be the load on the stator windings.

[Sledge Hammer]

We design power supplies that are redundant and have to be setup specially to share loading. normal powersupplies don't like too.
As Lawrence suggested one unit ends up doing most of the work so dual regulators is a crapshoot.

The regulators dissipate the unneeded energy to ground creating heat.
When more energy is needed then they conduct the energy to the system still creating heat.

What I would worry about would be the load on the stator windings.

I agree. I think the most practical way of addressing the issue is simply to either relocate the regulator for better cooling or else mount a fan to keep air flowing over it. I like your idea for the bracket better, Len, since it addresses the fundamental problem without adding another electrical device which can fail.

[TLRam1]

This weekend we have plans for fathers day but next weekend should be good if it is good for you.

Let's keep in touch, haven't thought that far ahead yet.

[TLRam1]

After reviewing the schematic, and after making careful measurements, I do not believe that adding accessories will reduce the thermal load in the regulator/rectifier.  If it would, then turning on my 120 watts of running lights should reduce the operating temperature.  It does not.

The alternator can be viewed as a source of current.  It is not a voltage source.  The current it puts out goes through diodes to the battery/electrical system, or through silicon controlled rectifiers (SCRs) to ground.  The voltage drop through these devices are similar, and this voltage drop times the current is the power dissipated in the unit.  So it doesn't make much difference what the accessory load is.  Depending on the particular choice of diode and SCR, it may actually go up a bit through the diodes, in which case the dissipation would increase with load.  In my unit, at least, there is no measurable change in temperature with load.

I do remember your test and what your findings show, so I am in a neutral position and do not disagree or agree other than the facts of your findings are correct. So far the history has been anyone running 100 plus watts of lights consistently from a low mileage bike has not had a failure, maybe this pushes it right below the threshold that is undetectable from the outside. If we had a large failure rate of bikes heavily accessorized from a young age than this history/theory would be blown. Your findings have puzzled me because of the history.

Just to clarify, not saying to add accessories in lieu of the plate, the plate or similar mentioned is the best way. 

[Magnum Magna]

For moot members $36 each for one. $35 if your special!
$30 each for more than one (2+) This doesn't mean 1 guy buys everyones.I know how you guys think!




The regulator kits are available through Moot.
Contact Greg Cothern, he's handling the $$ side of it since its going to Moot
I will need a shipping address that the unit is going to if you want the stainless acorn nuts instead of or used with the nylocks.
The acorn nuts didn't make it in in time for MM8. I'll try to send some to Greg so he can send them with any orders.


Kits left (20)

How much extra do I need to send for the stainless acorn nuts?