After winter bike.. Needs some help

[tedkraus]

Hi I am new here, just want to introduce myself. Name is Ted and I have a 95 Magna.  I live in Duluth MN, where the riding season is very short. I put my bike away near the end of November (running great) and am just hoping to get it out in the next few weeks.  I am an amateur so please go easy on me.   This fall I used some stabil in the fuel appropriate ratio ran the bike for 10-15 minutes topped off fuel and stabil closed the fuel valve, took the battery out and put the bike away for the winter...    I have since charged and reinstalled the battery fuel is now on.

Problems

1) After numerous attempts to start the bike I can only get it to run for 2-5 seconds.
2) Antifreeze is seeping out in many places.

After searching the forum here is what I have examined/done.

1) I feared a headgasket may have broken in the winter, (extreme cold) so first I checked the oil, appeared to be normal consistency not flooded with antifreeze.  ANtifreeze levels are low in the reserve tank but not excessively.  Lower than in the fall when I put the bike away but not by more than 50-100mL.

2)When attempting to start the bike turns over quick and fires regularly for very brief periods of time, usually backfires and dies. I am thinking my carbs got gunked up...  I took the fuel tank, air filter, throttle cable, and idle speed adjustment off. I loosened the carb boots on the cylinder head side. But I could not remove the CARBS!

3) Along the way with step 2, I tightened many hose clamps where antifreeze may have been leaking, but also discovered the "water pipe" connecting the right and left cylinder banks is also seeping...

I need advice on the proper way to replace the water pipe and or seals as well as how to get the carbs off the boots. 

After looking at the parts fiche on hdlparts.com I guess the water pipe has o rings on both sides and angle bend pieces, does that mean to replace the pipe+orings I must also remove the 90 bends. see hdlparts.com water pipe section.

I guess the antifreeze has failed? I have only had the bike one summer, I have no idea when it waslast changed.... What is a recommended antifreeze for arctic temperatures it was colder than -30F at my house this winter!  And proper method for antifreeze exchange and system pressure testing, I want to make sure the system is not leaking before I put the carbs back on (well if I ever get them off).


THANKS for reading my long post!

Regards,

Ted

[hootmon]

Hey Ted


There is a section of Tips & Tricks on the sites main page (outside of the forum area)
Follow the instructions HERE and you should be able to get the carbs off.
The Magna idle jets have a very small orifice, so it is likely that if you get them cleared out, things will go better.. Most of the people on this and other forums have switched from Stabil to SeaFoam. It is also a fuel stabilizer and is also a great carb cleaner.. 

Somewhere on this site there is a link to a Magna Shop manual (it's in someone signature as well - can't remember who..) Downloading the manual will be a great help!!!

I've never heard of anyone having the antifreeze tube seals on the Magna leak, but my wife has an '03 Sabre and there is a tube that runs between the front and rear jugs and a leak at this point is pretty common on the Sabre. On the Sabre (With a long pair of needle nose) it is possible to squeeze the retaining clip then slide the tube in one direction, replace the o-ring, then slide the tube back in. Then remove the other retaining clip and slide it in the other direction and replace the o-ring and slide it back and re-install the retaining clip.. It is not a hard job on her bike, but a little hard to get to. 

I would think there is a similar process for the Magna..

Others will chime in and give more detail info to you..

Welcome to the site, and hope you get things back in shape.

[tedkraus]

Thanks for the info. I will use sea foam next time. I do have the shop manual. Very useful, following the shop manual I have everything for the carbs disconnected. But the boots are very firm.  I can barely "rock" the carb bank... Also on the water pipe I have not seen any clips (possibly just me and will potentially be obvious with carbs removed) I also do not see clips on the parts diagram.

[roboto65]

The carbs can be a pain to remove there is a point you can get and prybar up under on the left rear carb and engine should be a boss on the eng and up under the bowl screw and pry up once that pops free it is cake from there. Oh the boots come off with the carb.

As far as the leaks well there are Orings on the pipes and I have heard of one other guy replacing them should be an easy job with the carbs removed..

[LIMagna]

Another thing you can do if you haven't done so already is to spray some WD-40 on the boots.  Once that seeps in a bit it should make it much easier to get them to pop off.  Just be careful what you pry against as there are many soft parts on the bottom of the carbs.  I chipped a small piece of metal (not critical fortunately) from one of my idle screw tubes the first time I took the carbs off my bike. 

Also, you might want to check the vacuum petcock.  If the vacuum tube gets cracked or the internal diaphragm fails, you won't get any gas flowing to the carbs. 

[tedkraus]

Please advise on checking the vacum petcock. Thx.

[LIMagna]

First thing to check would be the vacuum tube running from one of the cylinders (# 4 I think ... front right side).  If that tube is cracked, you won't get fuel to flow through the vacuum petcock.  Inspecting the internals of that valve can be done quite easily if you're going to pull the carbs.  There have been plenty of reports of the internal diaphragm failing, which will cause symptoms similar to a cracked vacuum tube.  Replacement internals (referred to as the vacuum petcock cover kit) can be had for around $40.  For one reason or another, that part doesn't show up in the online parts fiche for all years of the 3rd gen. Magna but it is there for some (model year 2000 I believe).  They're all the same so it doesn't matter from which year you order it.  

[dgc67]

If you pull the fuel line off the bottom of the petcock and put something under it to catch the fuel, you can then pull that vacuum tube off the number 4 cylinder and give it a little suck.  Fuel should not come through thru the vacuum tube and when you suck on it gently gas should start to flow through the petcock.  If no gas flows while doing that then the petcock is your likely culprit.  If you take the petcock apart be careful as there is a spring in there that likes to escape sometimes.

[tedkraus]

To those who were coaching me on the vacuum petcock. It has checked out A+. Thanks for helping me eliminate this as a potential problem.

[lragan]

Hey, Ted,

Everyone here will try to help you sort it out, not only because they are great folks, but we just naturally feel deep sympathy for anyone who has to put up with the Minnesota cold.

Do folks actually live there on purpose?

[LIMagna]

To get back to some of the original questions, here's a nice video on changing the coolant in a 3rd gen Magna:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmicDs12bM

Use a phosphate free antifreeze.  You can buy the Honda specific cycle stuff but you can get  the Honda/Acura automotive antifreeze for less which is really the same stuff, designed specifically for use in aluminum engines. 

As for the leaks, you could possibly have cracked some stuff if the antifreeze in the bike was weak and it was exposed to -30 degree temperatures.    I haven't heard much about any antifreeze leaks on these bikes short of at the water pump and that can be caused by using the wrong antifreeze.  I suppose there could be other seals that might be damaged by use of inappropriate fluids too.  The service manual and online parts fiche will be your best friend as far as replacing any of those items.

[tedkraus]

I do plan on changing the anti freeze, so thanks for the video. I after some more leak examination it is not the water pipe but rather one of the elbows that is leaking between the elbow and the block.  I was also worried about cracked block etc, happened for different reasons on a 84 vf700c I owned previously.  Well I was at the local shop I buying a new set of spark plugs (I will explain the plugs in a minute) and decided to ask the mechanic there. He said very slight leaks are extremely common  in the spring on the elbows/water pipes where I described the leak, especially if the bike is not stored in a heated garage as in my case. He also said that very frequently the heating cooling of the bike a few times will seal it up for the rest of the year if not indefinitely long and advised me to wait until the bike is good and running and coolant frame etc. can heat up a number of times before replacing any of the seals because frequently it is very hard to get the aluminum elbows to seal to the block.  

I have not had a chance to work on the carbs since first posting but had a short amount of time yesterday, so I took the spark plugs out. They were very sooty as if the bike has had been running rich when running previously, furthermore I found out they were the incorrect plugs.  I replaced them with the suggested ngk #CR8EH9.  Also when testing the vacuum petcock I decided to drain all gas that had traveled beyond the petcock but not yet entered the carbs as well as drained all the stablized gas I had in the tank.  Although I have not had a chance to test the bike with new gas since doing this work. 

Thanks again for the advise!

[tedkraus]

To answer your question: you get used to the cold. I burn about 5+ cords of wood each winter and stay toasty warm inside. Outside you wear many layers, I moved to Duluth Minnesota because I wanted a change from living in New York.  Furthermore besides the main reason I live here (school), there are tons of fun to be had outdoors some of the best whitetail hunting in the country, and most of the state is public land for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, etc.  Although in Duluth good employment can be hard to come by, but I fortunately happen to work at the school one of the major employers in my town.

Hey, Ted,

Everyone here will try to help you sort it out, not only because they are great folks, but we just naturally feel deep sympathy for anyone who has to put up with the Minnesota cold.

Do folks actually live there on purpose?

[hootmon]

some of the best whitetail hunting in the country, and most of the state is public land for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, etc. 

[tedkraus]

Really Good News and Awful news:

Good News: As previously mentioned, I did the plugs and fresh gas yesterday. The result of this work= a fast an easy start when I tried today, despite a 32F ambient temperature. I ran the bike for 10-20 minutes and it felt strong I road it around the block no stalling.  Where antifreeze was leaking outside the engine at the water pipe elbows did settle in and stop leaking nearly immediately.

Bad news: when the bike was running there was some smoke (light color) and water coming out of the pipes.. I couldnt tell whether it was from antifreeze or just residual water... I decided to change the oil, (despite 10-15 minutes of idle the fan did not come on, but it could have just been the cold outside temp, I usually wait for the fan to come on to know it is hot enough to change the oil, while I was thinking about compression I put my hand by the exhaust the flow it felt low (could have been me though.)

I did change the oil with 10w-40 Mobil 1 for motorcycles, and a fresh honda filter.... Bad part in the old oil my girlfriend pointed out a greenish color by shining a light on oil in the drain bucket, oil was otherwise pretty clean and good quality... I fear what was suggested earlier, potentially head gasket or other serious problems? HELP?

Tests: I believe a compression test is in order? If this is the correct test and the compression is low, what are the next steps? If you suspect headgasket, how hard is a headgasket repair? Something I can do? or is this one a job for the professionals (if so please hazard a guess at the hours of labor so I know I am not getting ripped off) .


Thanks again for all your advice on the bike! You guys are awesome!