Gear Change Difficulty

Hondalover · April 10, 2013, 03:38:27 PM

I have a 95 gen3 Magna with 50K miles on clock.I am having difficulty changing gears from second to third (all other changes are fine) the bike remains in second gear probably 30% of the gear changes and I have to apply clutch again and force lever up to effect the change.I have also noticed a distinctive whine when in second gear that it not evident in the other gears.I suspect I may have a selector problem,but would like to have confirmation of this from those of you more knowledgable than me.Can someone also please advise me if it is necessary to have to remove the engine to allow for gearbox repairs.-Thanks in advance.-HL

TLRam1 · April 10, 2013, 04:02:07 PM

Welcome to the site!

What area are you in, maybe someone could ride your bike and see what problem, if any, you may have. To work on the transmission the cases will need to be split, I do not believe the gears come out the side. These Magnas normally shift without a problem.

Look here and download the Service Manual

Under - Manuals - Service

http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php/topic,1917.0.html

Hondalover · April 10, 2013, 04:42:01 PM

Thanks Ram--I live in New Zealand and have been a member for some time--problem is my nearest Honda dealer is 200 miles away and I have not had much luck with them in the past when it comes to things Magna.-Thanks for manual download info,i will examine this-In meantime if anyone else can offer up info it would be most appreciated-HL

Magnum Magna · April 10, 2013, 10:08:08 PM

With 50k on the ticker it could be time to change the clutch plates and springs.
I had to change mine just over 50k miles.
Welcome to the MOOT and Texas.

Hondalover · April 11, 2013, 03:47:40 PM

Thanks Magnum-could well be worth a try-HL

Greg Cothern · April 12, 2013, 07:10:12 PM

What type of oil do you use? Its been my experience that when I use synthetic Motorcycle specific oil, the shifts are much quieter and easier.

Also have your adjusted your clutch cable? As the cable stretches and the discs wear you have to make periodic adjustments..

Hondalover · April 27, 2013, 03:58:20 PM

Hi Greg--Sorry for delay in reply,I have been out of the country.I use Belray oil but this has been hard to get here recently so I have settled on Motul.-Clutch adjustment is fine--The problem is only when changing from 2nd to 3rd,it does not want to come out of 2nd,I suspect it may be a selector fork problem which means engine out and strip down-read mega $-unless anyone else has an idea.I would try a fully synthetic oil but get a bit worried about clutch slip.I find it a bit hard to believe that I should be having these problems at only 50000miles as this bike has been well looked after.--Has any other member had these problems who could point me in a directional fix.-Thanks-WK

Greg Cothern · May 05, 2013, 01:33:41 PM

I would not think a fork would be bent...

Most if not all are cable adjustments and or oil type use that causes most shifting issues.

MOTORCYCLE specific oil (personally synthetic) works best. NO problems with synthetic as long as its motorcycle wet clutch type.

Hondalover · May 06, 2013, 05:27:50 PM

Thanks again for your input Greg--Over the weekend I removed right side cover and closly inspected all linkages,nuts and springs and everything was fine.I have now pulled the motor and inspected shifter forks,gear dogs,gears and shafts all to no avail,everthing looks perfect and I cannot replicate the problem.-One thing I did notice was that the 5th gear was very dark blue in colour indicating excessive heat--on looking at Honda manual I see that this gear part number has been superceeded by Honda so there was oviously a problem on early Gen3 motors with this gear.Does anyone have a friendly source where I might be able to find out what this problem was as the Honda dealers here in New Zealand are not that friendly towards privateers and I would like to know.--Thanks-Chris

hootmon · May 06, 2013, 08:44:36 PM

A supersceed does not necessarily indicate a problem...
Sometimes it's a design change, but sometimes it's a change of manufacturer as well...
I have a 94 with about 90K on it and no issue with 5th gear, and someone on here has 150K (not sure of the year of his bike) and no issue...
Looks like you are looking at about $100 US for a gear...
Any chance the gear is blue because it has been heat treated to make it harder? Maybe it is normal? It's hard to imagine one gear getting hot enough to blue, bathed in oil without the interfacing gear getting blue as well...
Just something to think about...

Hondalover · May 06, 2013, 09:59:54 PM

Thanks Hoot,i never really thought about that-trouble is it is so blue that it is nearly black which got me worried,but your comments are definately food for thought.-Chris

lragan · May 07, 2013, 10:23:24 AM

Gear design is a non-trivial problem. If gears are wearing fast, it is inevitably the shape of the teeth, and how they mesh. A classic mistake that young engineers make is to make the gears harder when they wear. This usually makes them wear even faster.

I am confident that Honda engineers know how to design gears. There are too many of them in production in so many vehicles I can't even name them all. Why one of yours is blue-black is a mystery indeed.

You did not mention if you had the bike from new or bought it, like many of us, including me, used. Is it possible that someone replaced it with a non-stock part? Maybe even counterfeit?

Hardness in metals depends on many factors -- alloy composition (metallurgy), heat treatment profile, etc. I can make nearly any metal harder (and more brittle!) by heating it and rapidly cooling (quenching) it in oil or water. Is it possible someone altered this gear in this manner?

Color is one indicator of hardness, but is not definitive. The only way to tell for sure is to run a Brinell hardness test on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale

If it were mine, I would buy a Honda replacement gear, install it, and be on my way...

Hondalover · May 07, 2013, 04:50:36 PM

Thanks Iragan,I have taken this all on board-I bought the bike second hand about two years back-the casings showed no sign of being apart before that I could determine.The dogs on the gear show no signs of bluing which indicates to me that any bluing on the dogs has worn off with use and therefore the gear was blued on assembly-could this be why Honda superceeded this gear?
I guess I should take your advice and replace the gear regardless while I have engine apart-Thanks again.

hootmon · May 07, 2013, 05:18:26 PM

I'm sure several of us are up for a "mod day" if you pay the airfare!

MagnaMikeD · May 07, 2013, 07:28:19 PM

Hey Hondalover, nice to meet you. Hootmon mentioned someone who has 150k on their magna. I think he may have meant me. Mine is a '99 model and was new to me in 2001 as it was in the crate for two years. At this time I have 172k miles. I say this without bragging because I know God has kept me safe on the bike and kept it running. I keep wondering when the engine or transmission will fly into pieces. I do about 300 miles a week on it. I have not had any transmission issues yet . I posted this about shifting issues on May 30, 2012:

Quote from: MagnaMikeD on June 02, 2012, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: tedkraus on May 30, 2012, 11:27:51 AM
WOW incredible!!!! Hope you get many more miles!!! How is the transmission holding up? Any trouble shifting or 2nd gear issues?

From 2nd to 3rd there is a bit of a clunk. From 4th to 5th sometimes I feel a little extra resistance or notch to get it into 5th. On a couple of occasions, I did get it to 5th gear and back on the gas, but after about 3 or 4 seconds, it slipped to nuetral and of course the rpm shoot up. Its a bad feeling when that happens.
Part of the issue may be some slop in the gear shifter and me shifting. It seams to be wear on the shaft the shifter pivots on. I put a stainless washer on the shaft to take out some slack. I'll need to do something soon maybe the gear shifter is wallowed out on the inside.

I hope the repair works well for you.