1994 Magna Clutch problem.

[Bradnchristine]

Hello everyone.  A friend sent me to seek your wise counsel.  I have an intermittent issue with my clutch and have posted the issue in a few places but have not gotten any really definitive answer yet.  Here is what happens...on occasion...gotta love erratic problems...

Bike has 17,000 miles and has been ridden pretty consistently for the last 2 years. My wife has started being the primary rider only recently. When stopped (warm or cold) and the clutch is held in, slowly releasing it sometimes feels like there is NO friction zone...like the clutch is not being released at all. It seems like it isn't in gear, and so I have naturally just pulled it back in and pushed down again on the shifter...(the neutral light is never on in this condition) and it seems the act of working the clutch linkage corrects whatever the fault is. Then it moves fine.

It does not do this every time and is still pretty rare, but I think it may be increasing in frequency. But of course, that becomes a scary situation, being left to wonder if the clutch is gonna slam together when the throttle is positioned higher than desired. This never happens while shifting on the move (up or down), and the clutch does not seem to slip whatsoever on acceleration or deceleration. The cable is adjusted properly and isn't hanging up anywhere outside.

I have been told that it could possibly be the inner clutch basket having "grooves" worn into it. I've also been told that it could be the lifter/rod mechanism that actuates the pressure plate sticking. My wife is just getting used to riding this bike and I don't want to disable it for 2-3 weeks while I try to examine each piece and determine what I need to order...and then wait for it to be shipped.   I've also been told that it is highly for that to be the issue with only 17000 miles.

BTW, Oil is recently changed (which neither increased nor decreased the incidence).
Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

Brad

[hootmon]

1st of all



2nd, I see you are in Lake Havasu City, AZ - No members near there that I am aware of...

3rd, I've got a couple of questions...
(Note: I'm not the most technical person on this board, but I'll get things started...)

When you are releasing the clutch, is there resistance all the way out (clutch springs pushing) or is there no resistance (cable going slack)
IF there is no resistance, then I'd watch the other end of the clutch cable (lever on top of the chrome cover on the left side) If it is not moving while letting the clutch out, it is a cable issue or resistance on the rod that the lever actuates (crossing through the engine to make the clutch move.

IF there is resistance the whole way out, then I suspect the clutch is doing it's job.

If the clutch is doing it's job, then you are not fully engaged into gear. This could be a couple of things, but I don't know enough about the shifting/tranny side of things to provide any good suggestions...
Tranny issues are rare on 3rd gen Magna's especially with the mileage you report.

Hopefully, at least my questions may narrow down exactly where your issue initiates, and others will jump in..

[Lurkin]

First off, yes, intermittent sucks...

Second, Hoot's first suggestion is where I would start.  If you don't have any tension, you know something, that could be anywhere in the chain, is getting hung up.  If you do have tension, then you know it's behind the clutch springs somewhere,,, since this is a mechanical clutch, all the clutch tension is supplied by the clutch springs themselves.

Only other thing I would suggest is that next time it happens, hold the clutch were it is if you can safely get it to the side of the road, then check the linkage where the cable goes into the left side cover and ensure it's moving properly.  And/or, when it happens only try one thing at a time, i.e., only pump the clutch, or only pop the gear lever, try and do only one thing at a time.

BTW don't discount what a previous owner did to the bike, assuming you're not the first owner.  Personally I bought my 01 with 8K miles back in 2007.  I started noticing some clutch slippage shortly after puchasing, but could not believe that it needed replaced after only 8K miles.  I ended up replacing the clutch plates, the steels and the springs, and none of them were worn, but the slippage was fixed.  I suspect the previous owner used "Energy conserving" oil and the moly coated the plates.  Not your issue, but you never know what happended before.

[Bradnchristine]

Thanks for the welcome!

The clutch feels just like normal...  No slack, nothing odd, except when you expect to start feeling friction, there is none.  Then the natural thing is to pull in the clutch and step down again on the shifter (and it is fine).  The more I read comments like this, I think it is entirely possible that it is just sloppily putting it into 1st...but not quite.  We are going to purposefully downshift into 1st before stopping (the last couple feet anyway) and let the clutch out to feel the compression.  Then pulling the clutch back in to wait for the stop/light.  If it never happens again, then we'll have to consider that it is just not getting it all the way into 1st.

Clutch cable and all that is sound and functions as expected. 

My big fear is that she'll start to rev up the engine to take off, and it would "find" first gear at 2000 RPM or so, and then try to take off out from under her.  She does seem to experience this more than I ever did, so I hope you are right.

Maybe the easy determination is that the next time it happens, I should grab the front brake, let the throttle drop back to idle, release the clutch fully, and then step on the shifter.  If it tries to lurch and dies, then I will know where the problem lies.  Does that sound like a good plan? 

[hop along]

When stopped (warm or cold) and the clutch is held in, slowly releasing it sometimes feels like there is NO friction zone...like the clutch is not being released at all. It seems like it isn't in gear, and so I have naturally just pulled it back in and pushed down again on the shifter...(the neutral light is never on in this condition) and it seems the act of working the clutch linkage corrects whatever the fault is. Then it moves fine.

Brad,
The clues above are what I'm interested in.  I will also say I am not Mr. Mechanic, but I have noted a similar experience when I first started riding.  My 2003 Magna is my first bike so there is some similarity in experience it seems.

I notice that if I shift at a stop, I may get a 'false shift'-IE the shift won't be completed, and to get moving I have to do as you do fanning out and in the clutch with an extra push on the shift lever; OR, I physically roll the bike forward or back a foot.  (rolling gets internals to move around a wee bit)  then let the clutch lever out to engage and move forward. 

To prevent these instances my habit changed.  Since I changed my habit I have learned from more experienced riders-such as at continuing Rider education classes-that this change is a healthy riding habit....
As you are decelerating to a stop, downshift to stay in an appropriate gear.  So you should be in first well before coming to a complete stop.  Hold the clutch lever in, and once stopped, keep your right foot on the rear brake and throttle hand covering the throttle.  The practical benefit to this is avoiding your 'missed gear/friction zone' issue.  The theoretical benefit to this, is that you are in the proper gear as you decelerate, in case you need to move quickly-EG a car is not stopping behind you and you need to move out of the way. 

The long and short of it.... shift down into first before coming to a complete stop.  Stay in first while at the light with the clutch lever pulled in.  Don't ever be a 'sitting duck' in neutral while stopped.

Based on your description, I don't believe there is a mechanical problem.  There is just a quirk in how some clutches work and there is  an easy adjustment to riding habit that is not only a fix for the problem, but is a healthy riding habit as well.

give it a shot for awhile, I will be interested in knowing if this adjustment helps the situation.

Hop Along

[Bradnchristine]

My wife did exactly that on a trip across town with a few stops.  She made a conscious and purposeful effort to be in first gear by the time she stopped at each and every stop.  NO issue today.  I'll keep you posted, but it really is seeming that it is rider rather than machine, with me being guilty of the same offense,  Hopefully this is all it is, a new habit to always do, rather than tear apart a perfectly good clutch.

[TLRam1]

Welcome Brad from Texas!

As mentioned, if you are in 5th gear and try to shift back to first all at one time or while stopped you will get a false neutral as all the gears are not aligned.

While coming to a stop in 5th, you can downshift a couple of gears, partially let out the clutch until you feel it grabbing, pull the clutch back in and you can drop another gear or two, repeat as necessary. Sometimes I may do this a bit in every gear I downshift, most of the time I think I do as above.

If you have ever driven a standard automobile or truck you have the same issue, it will not go into gear unless you let out the clutch a little, push back in, than shift. 

It just needs to grab a bit and that will keep all aligned in the gear box and might be the problem you are having, bad procedure.

It becomes habit after you do this for many years

[Bradnchristine]

Bad procedure is easily corrected...much easier when compared to a mechanical problem!  I do believe that is it...despite warnings of failed inner clutch baskets and such.  Thanks to everyone.  If properly getting it into first before stopping doesn't cure it, I'll be surprised and report back.