LED Tail Lights

[lragan]

Bought and installed red LED "bulbs" in both my bikes.  Found them on Amazon:
New generation!LUYED 2 x 800 Lumens Super Bright 1157 2835 33-smd RED Color 1157 2057 2357 7528 LED Bulbs used for tail lights,brake lights and turn s
Sold by: Hot Light Team
$13.99

Two of 'em in a "jewelry" box!  These are red LED's.   White "LED" lights use a phosphor to convert light from the diodes to white light.  If you want red from the lens, as in a tail/brake light, it is more efficient to use red diodes.  These are not only considerably brighter, they use far less current. 

I don't know how well they will hold up to vibration, moisture, etc., but I am pleased with the initial results, and at a reasonably price.

The CCD camera in my cell phone has limited dynamic range, so the lights show up as orange in the center in the attached photo.  They are both red to my eyes.  Guess which bike has the filament bult?

Anyone have experience with running lights or headlights using LED's??

[hop along]

Larry, I notice it looks like you've squared off the tire on the right....

But I digress    I've got LED tail and front running lights.  No point in swapping the rear for LEDs, as they only draw current when blinking, and its intermittent at that point.  I also added an LED bar at the bottom of my liscence plate for better punch.  I didn't feel like the brake bulb had as much 'spread' in the lens cover as the stocker bulb.  Generally, I find they last as long or longer than the stock bulbs.  The saved wattage is useful for my heated grips, or heated jacket, or auxiliary lights....

On my DR I have an LED headlight.  spread actually improved, I was surprised.  There is even less margin for accessories on the DR than on the Magna, thus the switch.  I am also adding a good 60 watts of LED auxiliiariy lights on that bike.  Along with heated grips, or heated jacket.... lol  I have to admit though-I think if swapping the Magna H4 for and LED H4 bulb will require a 'flex mesh' base not a fixed alumnimum base for cooling (yes, LED's require cooling).  I don't think the fixed base will fit in the Magna shell.  It may also be useful to get a 'in fairing' harness and nest stuff behind the little black side panels on the side of the steering stem.
As for vendor... I find Eastern Beaver to be a fine vendor.  Just don't get the headlight relay... I am still working with them to find out why it won't work on the Magna 

Hop Along

[lragan]

Hop Along, I agree on turn signal lights.  Many blinkers will not function with the lower current draw of LED's.  At one point some years ago, my son was a student at UT.  There were places where one could park, as long as all four flashers were operating -- I guess they knew that would limit the time.  So he had the brilliant idea to replace all four with LED's.  The flasher wouldn't.  He could not find a replacement at a rational price, so he had to obey the spirit of the rule and walk from the parking garage.

I can understand why a LED headlight would require cooling.  Exciting the phosphor lowers the overall efficiency, and generates considerable heat, especially in a really bright light in a small space.  And the semiconductors cannot tolerate temperatures common in filament bulbs with only metal and glass.

The LED structure I bought has more diodes around the circumference of the right circular cylinder it composes than are in the flat rear face, even though each one is not as bright as the rear facing ones.  There is plenty of spread -- brighter in all directions.

One of the issues I have with LED based "bulbs" for use in residence lighting is the spread.  Lumens are measured on boresight, and very little light emerges elsewhere.  Put in a fixture in my shop, and one gets a very well lighted floor just under the light and little illumination elsewhere.

[hop along]

I'm picking up what you're laying down... in my industry (entertainment) there is no small amount of money and frustration going towards making LED stage lighting fixtures.  Trying to control a 'beam' of LED light is a struggle.  The marketers keep saying "we've done it!" and then you use the fixture and realize how far we have to go yet.  Normally, most stage lighting fixtures have highly controllable beams-shape/size/'hot spot' etc.  Color temperature of LED's is a big one too.
Hop Along

[hootmon]

Well, Great, Lawrence.. Make me spend $36...
What else do you have for me??? 

[Brad Badgett]

Have 8 red led's on each side of the tag. Running and brake- after stopped on I35 in a construction area and two suv's came feet within rearending me, now I am visible, day or night, especially with brake on.

Brad Badgett
MOOT #164
OK Region
1996 VF750C

[lragan]

Hoot, how many bikes do you have?  I got two LED "bulbs" for $14.  Enough for both bikes. 

Or maybe Florida has a really high sales tax??

[hootmon]

Hoot, how many bikes do you have?  I got two LED "bulbs" for $14.  Enough for both bikes. 

Or maybe Florida has a really high sales tax??

Not tax..
But I have a car that the left front blinker tends to be a bit dim, so I bought 2 amber ones to see if I can brighten that up..
Also I'll try them in the front of the bike 1st and see if I like it..
I already have an electronic flasher in both, so the change in resistance is not an issue..

[lragan]

Yes, Hoot, LED lights are expensive.  I see the prices coming down, but they are still high.  I bought a lot of the "60W" equivalent lights for the ceiling fan lights in my home.  They claimed "28.2 years" lifetime, which is deep BS, I know.  I would like to understand the accelerated life testing protocol they used to get that number, but that is not forthcoming from them.  AND, I had several infant failures.  When I dissected one, it was clear why they fail.  The return to the sheet metal screw thread which threads into a standard light socket was merely laying against the inside of the metal thread case -- no solder, no weld, nothing.  So you could move it to another socket and it would work -- for a while at least.  The lights were guaranteed -- but the company is out of business.  Big surprise!!

Moral -- stick with a company that has a name to protect Phillips, Sylvania, GE, or such. 

In contrast to this sad tale, the 40W florescent tube replacements I bought have performed well.  One has to remove the ballast and rewire the fixture accordingly, but that is simple.  Or, for a few dollars more, simply buy a fixture with the LED tubes in place.

I will boldly predict that, in the near future, we will see lamps and light fixtures sold without replacement capability.  The LEDs will last as long as the fixtures do.

[hootmon]

Lawrence - as usual you are the man to listen to on technology..
They had the same type long life claims on CFL's .. and I believe it is true (just like with LED's) that the bulb it self will last the time they are stating..
It is the cheap fixture and supporting hardware that is not made to the standard that would make it last the claimed amount of time..
I was not complaining about the price, I was complaining that you brought up a discussion that cost me money.. LOL..
The car blinker has been an issue... It used to blink fast (as if the bulb did not work), but the bulb worked.. I replaced both the front and rear bulbs and it still fast flashed.. I bought an electronic flasher and converted it for the car and now it blinks the normal rate, but is still slightly dimmer in the front (I suspect a poor ground). The previous owner had whacked the car on that corner and it was repaired..
I'm hoping the LED replacement will bring the illumination up to snuff..

As always, thanks for your willingness to spread your wealth of knowledge and put it in small, easy words for us to understand! 

[hootmon]

OK..
I got my LED Tail light in.. I do like the improvement, as well as hopefully the longer life (I've never had a tail light go out, but it could happen)

I also got in my yellow front blinker lights..

They are not really that much brighter but they are more yellow than orange and of course they snap on and off as opposed to a bulb that ramps up in intensity..
The picture makes the LED bulb on the right look a lot brighter, but it's just a bit brighter..

The video also shows the difference (right on the screen is LED)..
I did add a can to the video just for Jerry!

Maybe Lawrence can help me out with this one (since he got me into this mess..) - The only bad thing about this set up (LED's in the back and front) is that NOW my blinker indicator on the dash is very dim.. I guess I'll have to get an LED bulb for that too, NOW!




------>>>>>    VIDEO      <<<<<---------

[lragan]

Nice video, Hoot.  The attack and decay times are evident, and it appears that the blink rate is constant -- consistent with an electronic flasher unit.

I just learned something new about the wiring for the turn signals -- as you have demonstrated, the indicator light is wired in series with the "bulb" sockets!  Consequently, the filament in the indicator doesn't glow much with the LED turn signal lights. 

Light Emitting Diodes are, for sure DIODES, with the sharp V-I curve all diodes exhibit.  Therefore replacements for 12V bulbs either have the proper number of diodes in series (not very effective, as one fails, all fail, like old Christmas lights, and variations in battery voltage have a large effect on light output.) or a switching power supply that provides the right amount of current to each diode. 

My concern is in the choice of indicator light.  If you find a replacement "bulb" that requires something approaching 12V to operate, it is unlikely that any of your blinkers will light up.  You need a single LED housed in the appropriate envelope.  The drop across this device will dim your signal lights a bit, but the bigger issue is locating such a unit.  If you find one, I would like to know where.

Of course, the other solution is to run a wire directly from your electronic flasher unit to power the indicator.  Just disconnect the "hot" lead that drives the indicator now. (This assumes you replace the filament indicator with a 12V LED one.  Doing this with the filament indicator will burn it out.)  And no, I would not put a big honking resistor in series to save the filament indicator.  This will negate the current savings that you gained with LED signal "bulbs".

On another note, my "bold" prediction of fixtures without easy replacement of the LEDs is not so bold after all.  I have found such fixtures recently at both Sam's and Costco.  I also bought, this week, from Costco, a pack of 10 60W replacements for $20.  $2 each is not a bad price.  I replaced the bulbs in two of the overhead 4-bulb "light kits" on ceiling fans, with pleasing results.  The new bulbs are "full spectrum", meaning they are intended to emulate daylight, not candle-light. I like them because they reveal colors on dark materials much better to my tired old eyes.  I don't have to wonder if I am getting blue or black socks from the drawer anymore.  Other folks may not like the full spectrum lights, which they regard as harsh.

I bought yesterday, from Home Depot, two "3-way" LED "bulbs" to replace the filament units in my bedside lamps.  I am taking them back today.  I feel certain they would work just fine in lamps with the traditional rotating switch to select the desired light output, but my lamps, which I really like and have owned longer than many of our readers have been alive, are the "touch" variety that senses one's fingers on the metal base and switches the light to the next state.  At the highest output, the LED units flicker full on and off.  I am not going to attempt to analyze why, even though I am, of course, curious. 

[hootmon]

Wow.. Simply WOW...

I'm going to try and find LED bulb to replace the dash bulb.. IF it is still dim, then I will attempt to bypass the existing power source and go directly to the flasher as you suggested and I would have not thought of ..
I'm smart and trained enough to follow 90% of what you are saying, but that is much different than coming up with it as you did..

Wow..

So let's move on..
Anybody know the standard bulb lingo for the bulb for the indicator on the triple tree?
Honda's part # is 34908-KM1-671, but of course Honda doesn't sell a LED update..
Anyone??  looks like it uses a T6.5 base.. Humm

Anybody know if THIS one looks right? Best I can tell it is..

I found this interesting ARTICLE, but it never states what gen Magna they have..

[Jerry G Turner]

Looks like the right one to me. Pour some seafoam on it and put it in.

[lragan]

Hoot, I notice two things on the links you include:

1) It appears that the gentleman has a 3rd gen bike, just from the photo of the triple tree and handlebars -- look very familiar.  Not certain, just my best guess.  I am not certain, but I think he is referring to LEDs for illumination of his tach and speedo -- not his indicator lights.

2) The replacement from superbright... states that it operates on 9-14.8 V.  I don't think this will work in series with your LED turn signals.  Both of them require the higher voltage, and they will not share in any way I can imagine.  It will work great if you run the extra wire from the flasher.