I am going to change the oil for the first time in my 1996 Magna and I went and got my oil filter and thought I had oil at the house so I didn't purchase any right then and there.
I'm don't have the oil like I thought so while I'm at the store on base, I am looking at all of the oil and the only one I see with a motorcycle on it is Royal Purple at 10.50 a qt. YIKES!!! :cry:
Is a 10W30 or 40 that you would buy for a vehicle the same as what goes in a bike or are there certain kinds you need to buy? :oops:
Thanks for the help...
Instructor50 (just to put everyone's minds at ease...I'm not an instructor of motorcycles) :lol:
Quote from: Instructor50
Is a 10W30 or 40 that you would buy for a vehicle the same as what goes in a bike or are there certain kinds you need to buy? :oops:
Thanks for the help...
Instructor50 (just to put everyone's minds at ease...I'm not an instructor of motorcycles) :lol:
Instructor50,
You need oil intended specifically for motorcycle use. I haven't tried using automotive motor oil, but I have read that the friction modifiers used in it will likely cause shifting problems. Honda warns that the "shearing action" of the clutch and transmission will lead to premature viscosity breakdown.
I am not an expert on oil (or much of anything else), so I can't comment about the Royal Purple, and for that reason I am not inclined to second-guess Honda. I use Honda's GN4 10W-40.
By the way, be bewared: the last time I bought a filter from Honda (part number 15410-MFJ-D01, or at least it was two months ago -- those jokers change filter part numbers recreationally), the torque specification on the filter was 2.4 to 3 times higher than the official Magna service manual shows. The manual shows 10 Newton∙meters (7 foot∙pounds), but the filter calls for 24-30 newton-meters. I put it on with a torque wrench at 10 newton∙meters, and that was plenty tight enough. I've ridden 300 miles since then with no leaks.
I'm pretty sure a fair amount of people on these boards use Royal Purple and love the stuff.
I mimic Greg myself and go with Mobil 1 MX4T Racing.
Agree with Spaceman though, I'd stay away from normal car oil and stick with motorcycle oil. I think synthetic car oil will cause your clutch to slip, so stay with a motorcycle synthetic if you go that route.
Yes, you can use automotive oil in bikes but avoid the ones with "Friction Modifiers" in them.
On the back of the oil in the bottom of the round circle where it states the certification of the oil it will say "Energy Conserving". Those have Friction Modifiers in them and you DO NOT want that.
Some diesel/gas oils are a Heavy Duty choice. I have never gone into the hype of synthetics and read for years on various types of oils. Reason being what breaks down on autos these days are not the internal parts so much as all the stuff attached to the motor.
After much research I see a benefit (I do understand the gears and extra pressures it places on oil). You can have a better oil, better protection AND Extended Oil Change Intervals.
Mobil currently has an oil with a guaranteed 15,000 mile chg interval. Initially they had a 25,000 mile on synthetic, dropped it for a while and came back with 15,000 mile.
Below is one of the better websites on oils I have seen. Lot's of reading but for people like myself......put to good use!
Some are auto related but used the info as that is what's available.
http://www.micapeak.com/bike/ST/ST1300/Oils.html
Oil Filters
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/purolator.shtml
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
Auto Air Filters
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
:cry: :? Some how I dont think I used motorcycle oil. I don't think it was a synthetic however. So far no problems :oops: Is there really that big of difference?
Well, right after I aired out my ignorance for all to see, I find a link on the Magna Diaries page on the MOOT site to the following article on oils:
http://vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
The article quotes Mike Guillory, who is listed on the University of Louisiana web site as having received a B.S. in Chemistry from them in 1967 and having retired from Shell Oil Co. in Houston. I'd say Mssr. Guillory's B.S. Chemistry trumps my B.S.EET.
I will still play it safe for now, but I'm going to give myself a little education on the subject.
That is the website I was going to post and the info is correct about Mike. I don't think you could go wrong taking his advice on the subject of oil and filters. I met Mike several years back when I joined the SMOT group and he does indeed know what he is talking about. Somewhere I have a pic of him on his V65 Magna.
Well count me in as a Royal Purple freak hehehehe and I have use Nonspecific RP in my bikes for years and have no problems I have used straight 40w and 10w40 no difference that I can tell all the bikes are still running as far as I know :D
You can run the non friction modifer auto oil, however it has been my personal experience that it makes the shifts noiser and a bit more difficult.
I finally got on the band wagon of the synthetics, as mentioned I have switched to Mobile 1 4T (used to be named MX4T) due to it quieted down the tranny noise and I dont have to changed it but half as often LoL. So cost is about the same with longer run intervals.
How often do you change Greg?
I'm coming up on 3k miles and was planning on changing then.
:oops: :idea: Duh. It wasn't me that changed my oil last. I had it done at my favorite store. 8) I'm sure the oil they used should be fine.
Tim, I go 6000-7500 miles on my oil changes, if its a lot of stop and go in town/city riding then I go 6k. If say majority of the miles are on a long trip and out on the highway type riding then I go for the 7500 mile mark.
On changing oil, with non-synthetic oils it is recomended to change the oil before storage ( Winter?), since the oil tends to turn acidic. Does 100% synthetic oil turn acidic while cycle is idle? I switched to Mobil 1 last oil change (May '07) on my '96 and plan to go ~8k between oil changes.
Brad Badgett
MOOT #164
1996 VF750C
OK Region
What Brad says is true, although I don't think the oil itself turns acidic but the contaminants that it may contain (that may have been what you meant Brad, sorry). If this is the case, then synthetic oil would have the same acidic contaminants that could etch bearing surfaces during prolonged storage.
I don't think anyone in our climate (even the "northerners" like Brad) will have their bike down long enough to worry about it, but maybe I'm mistaken (I hope not). I ride year 'round so have never given thought to what time of year I change the oil. However if you store your bike for a couple of months or more, it is better to do the oil change right before you put her away.
Curtis
Talk about a wealth of knowledge within this site!!!
You fellow MOOTsters are awesome! WHo would have thought a simple question I first thought I was going to get laughed at for would produce so many interesting comments? :o
You guys are awesome!
Thanks for the help. I think I may actually go with the Royal Purple too. I used to use it on my other truck and I was impressed so maybe I'll have the same good fortune with my bike.
Thanks again to all.
Brandon
Instructor50
On synthetics....it is generally understood you can double your change intervals using synthetics.
Amsoil has a "Service Bulletin" noting chg intervals pertaining to Harley's on the 2nd page, 10,000 miles or 1 year. Same with Mobil's 15000 mile chg intervals. I think in Mobil's FAQ this oil should be able to at least be able to get this much before a change and oil filters Do Not need to be changed more often.
There are many good oils to choose from and I am not pushing Mobil. They are just the ones who back it up with a guarantee for the ones stepping into this subject for the first time.
Each of us has to make our own decision what we do. Less maintenance and more riding or couch time is good to me. :D
I have NEVER been a fan of chaning oil without changing the filter. I mean heck it not much more work or $ so why not.
Like the old commercial used to say, "Pay me a little now, or a whole lot more later!"
Forgot the Amsoil info.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/harley_davidson_TSB.pdf
Yes, when oil is changed.... filter also.
On two of the the different websites they both recommend Rottella. I chose to use it b/c it is easy to get (I'm not just a cheapskate). Living in a small town there isn't much to choose from. But again, it is recommended so I don't worry about it too much.
While I believe (mostly) in the theory "you get what you pay for" I also am not so naive to think that someone won't claim most anything to earn an extra buck. And seemingly few groups are more aware of this than the auto industry.
It's been quite a while back (20 years?) when Consumer Reports did a test using NY Taxi Cabs to determine engine wear based on oil maintenance. Seems like they took 12 taxis, and over the course of several years and 100,000 miles conducted a test. On 6 taxis they changed the oil at 3,000 miles (which was recommended by the auto industry) and the other 6 changed the oil at 7,500 miles. At the end of the test they yanked out the engines, disassembled them, and went over them with a microscope. Turns out there was no difference at all between the two sets.
In addition, about 5 years ago my dad bought a new car and was asked if he wanted to purchase a maintenance agreement (they change the oil for you). After reading the fine print, he noticed something interesting. While the car manufacturer recommended changing the oil at 3,000 miles, the maintenance agreement would only allow for an oil change every 6,000 miles. When they (car manufacturer) was footing the bill, all of the sudden 6,000 mile intervals was just fine!
I say all of that to say I think people will tell you anything to make the sell. My favorite commercial is where they drain the oil out of two trucks and then run them until one burns up. If you are dumb enough to drive around town with no oil, then your engine should blow up on you! Sure, you might get another 2 minutes of protection out of your engine with their oil, but the bottom line is that no vehicle is made to be driven without oil.
If the auto industry made paper-clips, I'm sure someone would market copper-plated ones, claiming that they would be rust resistant, longer lasting, and have less wear and tear on the paper. Then they would have a commercial where a reg paper clip and a copper plated paper clip sat out in the rain. Using a time lapse video they would show that after 6 weeks, their CPPC (copper plated paper clip) was more durable then the old style. Then they would say that your paper deserves only the best, and would sell the CPPC's for $8 per dozen.
Anyway, that's just my once cent. Sorry, wish I had the other penny to throw in there but I guess I don't have enough sense to find another one. I'm now officially off my soap box. dc
So.............where can I get some of these fancy paper clips? At that price they MUST be good! How can I in good concience use my old steel paper clips after hearing about these new CPPCs? :P :P :wink:
Do you have a link to the time lapse video, after all seeing is believing, right? ha ha ha ha!!!!
Curtis
DC, you make good points.
Nothing wrong with Rotella. I currently have it in my 74 Suzuki GT750. It is a good Heavy Duty oil which will give you extended service also with better protection during use and at somewhere around 10 dollars for 4-5 QTS the price is right!
But you did bring up the Consumer Reports test. I take CR and read that article you are referring to. I also happen to have a link to it. You have a good memory and were correct on the points made. CR also did a 12k test and I think showed no difference. Of course not many will go out on a limb and state something different than the Manufactor but Mobil and Amsoil has.
I have many of these articles and read them all. Some good info, some not so good that's why we were all given a noggin to make up our own mind to determine the difference.
http://smokeriders.com/surprising_truth.htm