Hello.
I recently bought this bike from my brother, which has run fine since he bought it new. he had a problem with it not wanting to start. I replaced the stator and the battery. seemed fine for about a month, then it would not want to start at times where other instances it would. it came to a point where it would start less and less. therefore I would have to push start the bike. it has come down to where I was getting a clicking sound but not turning over. now it isnt even clicking anymore at all. the lights are bright so I am ruling out the battery. can it be the starter or relay? and does anyone know where the starter and relay is on the 98 Magna? any help would be SO appreciated. I am missing not being able to ride.the weather here in Fl. is getting nice. Thanks. Eddie
Have you tried cleaning the starter switch? I think the switch has created problems along those lines.
and clean your battery post, check for loose battery connections (happened more than once to me), check your kill switch. check the voltage on the battery anyway and what happens to the voltage when you hit the starter button.
If your voltage is in the mid 12's and you hit the starter button with little voltage drop, likely a faulty connection. If your voltage drops in the 10's could than be your starter binding (drawing current but not spinning). Think along these lines to help with your problem solving. If your battery tanks in voltage, likely has lost the amperage to turn over the starter.
Rarely hear of these types of issues being something difficult. There are other ideas if these don't work.
BTW, the starter is located at the front of the motor.
Oh yeah, welcome to MOOT!!!!!!
Where do you live?
Just following up on the battery line how old and if it sat up for a while how long?
Yes Welcome to the Moot
I agree, most likely the switch, When it won't start, try moving the switch around or letting it out, just a little. I have had to replace the switch on my '94 and my wifes '03 Sabre with the symptoms you discribe. I purchased used switches thru junk yards. They send you the whole unit, just take the guts out, that way you don't have to mess with the throttle cables.
I also had a broken positive cable right at the lug for the battery.
Yes, welcome to Moot..
I might have missed something has anyone mentioned the Regulator the stator was replaced but not the regulator HMMMMM Oh and welcome to the Club we WILL get ya going!!!
Since he push starts the bike and it runs and the battery neither dies or boils dry, I bypassed the regulator as the issue.
(BTW '94 - '99 Magna's are know for having regulator failures by our unscientific experience which is why it is being brought up.)
Thanks, everyone , for the warm welcome, as well as the quick responses.
Can't wait to get this fixed. this bike has never sat. my brother rode it often. it has about 40,000 miles on it. replaced with a new new stator and a new battery. as far as the starter switch issue, We had already experienced this. yes , cleaning it can help. however, that always seemed to be an issue with it the switch being "sticky". I don't think this is the current problem as, like I mentioned, whenever I pressed the starter switch I would get a clicking sound. so the switch is working. now when I press it, I get nothing. the headlight is fairly bright but goes dark when I press the switch. I recognize the thought process you guys are using. always try the simplest (cheapest!) solutions first. smart thinking. but after I rule out these solutions, would the next step down the line be the relay and the starter? and does anyone know if its a P.I.T.A. to replace the starter yourself? recent local shop estimate to replace starter: 300 big ones.
Someone here asked me where I'm from. I reside in Deltona, Fl. about half an hour from Daytona Beach.
Can't wait to get this baby going again. I'm currently working on a Mod (more aesthetic than performance) that I bet you guys havent ever seen that I would like to share with you. Thanks . Eddie
IF you determine that you think it is the starter, there are two things you can do, other than spend $300.00
1) take the starter apart (it comes off easily) and clean the commutator (the brass/copper looking part that all the wires go through on the spindle part) It sometimes builds up a lot of carbon and can reduce the surface area for the brushes to contact. I used a black compound bar that is used with a buffing wheel.
2) on E-Bay you can buy a rebuild kit. It comes with new brushes and bearings, etc.. and is about $40.
The hardest part of these two items is getting the starter back together.. It's not that hard, I'd just sort of holding everything together in the right place, while shoving it back together..
I rebuilt mine, but didn't need to (I have 50+K on my '94). I have a Starter clutch issue that I mis-troubleshot. (gears not engaging while the starter spins causing a grinding/chattering sound)
I am in Safety Harbor (near Tampa) and TP is in Spring Hill just north of me...
Sometime maybe we can get together during BikeWeek or something..
I would not spend time, money, or effort on the starter until I determined:
1) The battery is charging fully.
2) All the battery connections are sparkling clean.
3) The battery passes a starting current test (you can get this done at Wal-Mart, among other places.)
The fact that the light is bright does not mean the battery is OK for starting. The light draws 5-6 amps, while the starter will draw 75-100 amps. Connections inside and outside the battery can fail at the higher current and work just fine for the lower ones.
When you walk up to the bike, take off the seat and measure the battery voltage, what do you read?
When you start up the bike, and run it at 3000 rpm, what battery voltage do you read?
I had a battery for months that would not drive the starter for a cold start but would do everything else. I usually started the bike by riding down the hill and popping the clutch, so this was not apparent, until one day... A new battery fixed the problem.
There is, IMHO, a clear design flaw in the early 3rd gen regulators as originally mounted on the bike. All of us on the forum know this, which is why we are so suspicious of the battery condition.
Hope this helps. :cool:
I'm no mechanic but the light going out when you press the starter button sounds a little suspicious and electrical.
The light is supposed to go out when you hit the starter button.. It cuts the voltage draw so you have more voltage for the starter.. It's built into the starter button.
Hey guys. hope everyones looking forward to the fall riding weather. I have been out of town so havent had time to look at the bike.
I still am not able to locate the starter, picking up a voltmeter tomorrow and will test the battery. already checked as much wiring and connections as possible. anyone know where exactly the starter is on the 98 Magna? TLRam1, I know you said the front. I pulled off the tank and looked and checked around the carbs. I am pretty sure its a small cylinder object, and I feel like a damn fool for not being able to locate it, but..............?????
Here is a pictures of the starter
(Click on Picture for larger view)
[attachment deleted by admin]
It will be in the Very very very VERY front :-P where the tire throws all your mud, water and debris. Hootmon has a great photo for you.
Thanx Terry for not mentioning how dirty my bike is in the picture..
Anybody like the beer can oil filter??? It's Budweiser Select BTW...
I started to by a Harley Davidson Beer can, but in the end, I couldn't by the Harley brand product...
Another BTW.. In the photo, just under the starter there appears to be port holes where an oil cooler could be attached... Anyone ever do that? (I do understand that it is probably unnecessary with the radiator), just wondering...
I was Going to mention the Beer can oil filter, short on time and have to gget out of Dodge!
Those two ports are CA emissions I think. Try the oil cooler idea and let us know what happens. 8-)
Quote from: hootmon on October 16, 2008, 03:16:28 PM
Here is a pictures of the starter
(Click on Picture for larger view)
How did you do a picture like that? Making it small, and then click to enlarge?
He's just a trickster of magic.
Some post have Attach as an option under "additional Options", some do not...
This thread does, so I attached the picture directly without having to link from Tinypic.com.
I have not found a rhyme or reason for when it's there and when it's not, but seems to run on certain threads... Anywayz, when you attach it directly, the thumbnail, click to make it large feature is built in.
I'm sure the People who pay for server space (or additional harddrives) would prefer the TinyPic.com links. ;) Since it appears the picture get's uploaded to the server in the process. One picture is worth lots of posts in harddrive space...
Thanks Hootmon. yes, nice oil filter. and thanks for the pic.
O.k. I see the two bolts on the one end , but the other end it looks like one has to remove the casing to get to the other end.
and dumb question #23: after I test the battery , how do you test to see if the starter is the evil gremlin causing me not being able to ride? and I should check the relay as well, correct? Eddie
It's been a while since I removed the starter, but it was a no brainer...
Remove the Electrical cable. Remove the mounting bolts on the right, I cant rememeber if there is a bolt on the left or not, but definitely no case removes...
I would suspect the Relay or a connection to the relay 1st...
There is no Bendix (Throw out gear) on the starter, it just spins... You could find a time when you can't start the bike just apply 12V to the nut where the cable is on the front of the starter and see if it spins (Jumper cables perhaps)(Make sure bike is in Neutral), if the starter spins, then the problem is upstream toward the relay. If it doesn't spin, you have an intermittant starter. (I would tend to believe it's NOT the starter)
Thanks Hootman. so basically I can just pull that cable off of the starter. (does that just pop off?) connect the jumper to a (bolt? )underneath, and see if it spins. now at the other end of that cable is the relay I presume. I traced the cable from the starter to what prob is the relay. if you are sitting on the bike, it would be on the left right beside the battery, correct? assuming thats it, then there are two Allen bolts, one would be neg. the other right above where the cable connects being the pos. Am I right? any advice on how to test the relay? and if its not the relay, what would be futher up the line, the battery?
I am mechanically inclined, just not familiar with electrical too much. once again, thanks. E.
You remove the cable by removing a nut.
That cable does trace back to the left side under the side cover to the Relay.
That cable is NOT negative.
There is a power cable that runs from the battery to the other side of the relay. There is also some small wires & a connector. When you hit the Start switch it sends a voltage signal through that smaller connector, this in turn engergizes a coil (Inside the relay) this connects the battery side cable to the Starter side cable and makes it virtually the same wire. The "negative" comes from the Starter case, which is connected to the engine case, which has a ground wire connected to it.
So, with your volt meter
1) check the voltage across the battery post (should be ~12-13Volts)
2) Start the bike (if you can) and rev the engine to 3K RPM. The voltage at the battery should be ~14.7 VDC
3) turn off the bike and check the voltage at the regulator (Not touching the wire or connector, but on the bolt/nut - you should have your ~12-13v (If not, you have a bad cable)
4) Disconnect the small connector. Connect your Positive from your volt meter into the connector (not the relay side) and hit the start switch (With the key turned on) Then try the other wire (One of them should show voltage when the starter switch is pressed) If no voltage then you have a bad switch. (Reconnect small connector)
5) Assuming you have voltage from the switch - Now test the voltage on the starter side of the relay while pressing the starter switch - No voltage, bad Relay
6) Assuming you have good relay - You could test the voltage at the nut on the starter while pushing the starter switch (Checking to see if there is a break in the cable to the starter)
All this is covered in the manual you can get it here (takes a while to download)
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/crbinson/lst?.dir=/Magna+Manual&.src=bc&.view (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/crbinson/lst?.dir=/Magna+Manual&.src=bc&.view)
Hope it helps.. what did I miss guys???
Thanks a million hootmon, now I'm feeling motivated! thanks even more for the manual, sure that will help as well.
will have to take you up on that invite to meet up in Daytona soon. but only if you let me buy the beer. :D
will update anyone interested, hopefully with good news. E.
Having not read every post forgive me if I missed it and it was said already.
I would replace the battery, they can have enough juice to run the lights and all but not the starter relay..
My original 96 did this once and I swapped in a new battery (the original one was 6 years old) and VOILA all was good. ALSO note it runs through the headlight circuit.
Definitely follow the advice the others have given you first, as the 3rd Gen Magna starters have not seen many problems (that I've heard of anyway). If you do find that it is the starter though, talk to me first as I have a used one that I bought when trying to diagnose a starting problem.
If you do need it, I will sell it for _much_ less then the $300 new one.
Rod...