Hey Gang:
I was at the stealership yesterday because this screw popped off my bike (or so I thought) so I took it to them to see where it came from since I couldn't find its location.
They determined that it wasn't from my bike but some other mechanical object in the garage.
However, when they were inspecting my bike, they saw that near my valves (the cams) were leaking oil. The mechanic said that could be caused by too much oil pressure from having too much oil.
Well, him and two other mechanics proceeded to check my oil level, and I was a QUART low :(. Apparently, my magna has been burning oil, and I changed my oil only about 2000 miles ago (and I've been riding the Magna 2-3 times a week).
So they filled up my bike with more oil, and they proceeded to tell me that having low oil will damage the engine etc...and that the reason my cams are leaking is due to age.
They said the repairs to fix the leaking cams would be around 3 hours ($86/hour) + parts = so we're looking at $450+ for the final bill.
Right now, I'm not about to fork over another $500 into the bike. The mechanics told me that the danger is that if the oil starts leaking out the back onto the back wheel, it could cause me to spin out.
If you guys remember my history, I bought the bike as a lemon (my fault).
I paid $500 for the broken clutch at the stealership
another $500 for a heavy duty tuneup at the stealership
another $500 to fix the radiator/thermostat issue
another $500 to fix the fork seals/tire rot.
All within the last 3 years!
So unless you guys have any suggestions about what I should do with the bike to circumvent forking over another $500, I'm thinking I'm going to sell the bike for $1500 or so, and cut my losses.
It's a shame really since I've bought a lot of money/effort into restoring my Magna but I can't justify spending another $500 on the cams, $300 on the speedometer, and maybe $200 on the small dent from my neighbor dropping the bike.
:(
Any advice appreciated.
Remind me what bike you are talking about?
You are in a tough situation. I too had an older bike that started pick pocketing me I say cut your losses and sell. As bikes get older, they start having more and more problems, hence what you are finding out. I won't say buy a new bike though. Unless you find something that you can't live without. Say something not older than 5-10 years. That way the bike will be reliable. IMO. I had an old 82 gs850 that I kept putting a little money in it and I stopped one day and realized that I had $1500.00 in the thing. I sold it to a friend for $1000 and bought my 2001 magna. Trust me, it feels good getting on a bike and not having to worry about how far I can go before the thing breaks down on me. Or you could keep it and continue to add money until you have $4000 in it and wished you had spent that money on a different and more reliable bike.
Another option would be to keep the bike and go buy a newer one. So you will have something to tinker with on cold winter days. Hope this helps, good luck to ya. :grin:
My V45 has a small oil leak from the front cam/valve cover as well. It will just leave a little drop now and then, or I will see the drop accumulating on the adjustment nut for the front cam chain tensioner.
This is not TOO hard of a job to fix. IMO anyway. I just keep an eye on mine and wipe it off when I see it there. I doubt this will ever provide such a big leak as to cause you to spin out. If something like that were possible then products like Allen's chain luber would never be practical.
Quote from: TLRam1 on January 22, 2009, 12:07:11 PM
Remind me what bike you are talking about?
My 1985 700cc Honda Magna
I don't know enough about the bike to have an opinion in your case, but just speaking generally, my observation has been that bike shops, like auto shops, often show impressive imagination and creativity in finding terribly serious problems that are urgently in need of fixing, and inevitably they find that fixing it is going to require the owner to hand them a lot of money.
My old GS1000 was always oozing a little bit of oil at the top end, and around the badly-designed oil filter cover, and anywhere else it could get out; the big GS Suzukis had a high-volume oil pump so that the oil would find even the tiniest leak. I just checked it from time to time, and topped it up on the very infrequent occasions that the oil level dropped below specs. Usually by the time there was any appreciable loss it was oil-change time anyway.
I've never seen a decent bike engine that could be seriously damaged by running for a modest time with the oil a quart or less low. You do have to change the oil more often if you've got a leak, because the lower the volume of oil, the more concentrated the contaminants.
Now if it's BURNING oil, that's another matter - but have you checked to see if it's actually doing that? A look at the plugs ought to tell you. If it's burning oil then you could have something else wrong, such as a bad valve seal, and that would need to be repaired, and would probably cost money.
But if it's just a little top-end-cover leak, I wouldn't worry about it. And if you hadn't noticed it before, I wouldn't think it's all that big a deal.
Of course that's just my opinion, and not intended as actual advice. I wouldn't take responsibility for that.
Hey Dan..
Are you using Synthetic oil?
Just a side note, Synthetic oil will leak out gaskets much more easily than conventional oil. If the leak is not too bad, you have a choice.. Continue to enjoy the ride and check your oil a little more often, or see if you can sell it to someone and re-invest the $$$ in a Gen 3, or something else...
My '94 has 60+K miles on it, and doesn't leak, nor use any oil.. (I do get a little oil out my air breather because I have a AirHorn Compressor hanging from the bottom of it and I did not remove the gasket when I installed the K&N filter).. But I go a year (~10K miles) and I won't be down more than a 1/4 between the marks on the dipstick..
Any bike is a mechanical device and much like women (or men) is bound to give you problems sooner or later.. some are better than others, but all will need maintenance sooner or later...
It's the choosing when to cut your losses that is the personal choice.
Let us know what you are going to decide...
QuoteThe mechanic said that could be caused by too much oil pressure from (having too much oil).
Quotethey proceeded to tell me that (having low oil) will damage the engine etc...and that the reason my cams are leaking is due to age.
QuoteI paid $500 for the broken clutch at the stealership
another $500 for a heavy duty tuneup at the stealership
another $500 to fix the radiator/thermostat issue
another $500 to fix the fork seals/tire rot.
If all this was at the same dealer,I think I would change dealers first! Sounds to me like the the dealership is the money pit rather than the bike.
The cams leaking? You mean like leaking down into the cylinders? Or the cam seals on the valve covers leaking? If its just the valve cover seals/cam seal then fix that at home. Its not to bad just have to remove the radiator, gas tank, coils and fuel lines. If you have a manual its all you need. And what does a Heavy duty tuneup mean for $500? I'd go get a second opinion. Because plug, wires, air filter, oil change, drive gear oil and coolant flush don't cost that much! And then you paid for a radiator issue no I'd go somewhere else and fix my own S*** when possible.
Quotefix my own S*** when possible
You can fix a :D star :shock:??
Dan I know you probably love Md, but you need to move to Texas before those guys break you 8) .
($86/hour) + parts
This is what the going rate is now, unfortunately. The sign at my local Honda dealership says $80 an hour.
Quote from: L J BAD MAG on January 23, 2009, 09:08:30 AM
($86/hour) + parts
This is what the going rate is now, unfortunately. The sign at my local Honda dealership says $80 an hour.
Much of what you are paying for is the knowledge and experience.
This is why the wrench sessions are such a huge draw. Scrap the $86/hr and you only pay for the parts!!
Even if you can't make the haul to Greg's place, you can learn much of what you need to know right here. :cool:
Quote from: hootmon on January 22, 2009, 03:17:00 PM
Hey Dan..
Are you using Synthetic oil?
Just a side note, Synthetic oil will leak out gaskets much more easily than conventional oil. If the leak is not too bad, you have a choice.. Continue to enjoy the ride and check your oil a little more often, or see if you can sell it to someone and re-invest the $$$ in a Gen 3, or something else...
My '94 has 60+K miles on it, and doesn't leak, nor use any oil.. (I do get a little oil out my air breather because I have a AirHorn Compressor hanging from the bottom of it and I did not remove the gasket when I installed the K&N filter).. But I go a year (~10K miles) and I won't be down more than a 1/4 between the marks on the dipstick..
Any bike is a mechanical device and much like women (or men) is bound to give you problems sooner or later.. some are better than others, but all will need maintenance sooner or later...
It's the choosing when to cut your losses that is the personal choice.
Let us know what you are going to decide...
Non-Synthetic. Should I use Synthetic? What are the advantages vs. disadvantages?
You may not have a leak at all.... Remember these have cam chains that run through the oil bath.... HIGH RPM's will sling oil up etc. The crankcase vents into the aircleaner housing and it will drip out down from there.
I would yank the aircleaner housing clean it all very good and the heads etc (I bet its coming from the rear head??) and go riding again and see how things are....
Maryland...I'm taking a guess that your bike is a 1st Gen..?? The dealer told you there was an oil leak? Is oil leaking out from underneath the Covers? The cover gaskets can get old and hard, particularly if the bike sat for a long time and is now being regularly ridden. It make take a bit for the leak to develop, but it just seems to get progressively worse running down the heads and causing smoke to pour off your bike when you ride it. (Kinda embarrassing...lol) Replacing these gaskets is not difficult. Remove the tank, take out the air breather, drop the radiator and you have access to both the front and rear heads. Note that the Rear Cover is 2 pieces and requires 2 gaskets.
Next question(s). Where is the leak? Front or Back? Is it coming from the Front ONLY? If so, I am becoming suspicious of the little screw that the dealer didn't think came from the bike. The 1st Gen V4's have a little drain plug just under the Front Valve Cover to drain the bit of residual oil that always stays in the front head because of the "front head forward" position of the engine.
Just a few comments. If you had an oil leak large enough to loose a quart of oil in 2000- mile riding 3 times a week, your engine and garage floor would be covered in sticky, icky oil. If your bike was burning enough oil to consume a quart of oil in that time, you'd notice smoke coming from the exhaust when you rode it.
I hope yours turns out to be a really minor issue. My experience....so far.....is that the cost of fixing up the older Magnas is a WHOLE lot less that making payments on a new bike that will probably require repairs anyway...lol
Trapper
I'm going to attach a picture soon so everyone can see the "leaK". I'm not much of a mechanic...so when the weather gets warmer...I'll try to document my process on the forum so everyone can pitch in :)
Quote from: trapper on January 24, 2009, 11:34:52 AM
Maryland...I'm taking a guess that your bike is a 1st Gen..?? The dealer told you there was an oil leak? Is oil leaking out from underneath the Covers? The cover gaskets can get old and hard, particularly if the bike sat for a long time and is now being regularly ridden. It make take a bit for the leak to develop, but it just seems to get progressively worse running down the heads and causing smoke to pour off your bike when you ride it. (Kinda embarrassing...lol) Replacing these gaskets is not difficult. Remove the tank, take out the air breather, drop the radiator and you have access to both the front and rear heads. Note that the Rear Cover is 2 pieces and requires 2 gaskets.
Next question(s). Where is the leak? Front or Back? Is it coming from the Front ONLY? If so, I am becoming suspicious of the little screw that the dealer didn't think came from the bike. The 1st Gen V4's have a little drain plug just under the Front Valve Cover to drain the bit of residual oil that always stays in the front head because of the "front head forward" position of the engine.
Just a few comments. If you had an oil leak large enough to loose a quart of oil in 2000- mile riding 3 times a week, your engine and garage floor would be covered in sticky, icky oil. If your bike was burning enough oil to consume a quart of oil in that time, you'd notice smoke coming from the exhaust when you rode it.
I hope yours turns out to be a really minor issue. My experience....so far.....is that the cost of fixing up the older Magnas is a WHOLE lot less that making payments on a new bike that will probably require repairs anyway...lol
Trapper
Thanks for the detailed response trapper. I'm going to post pictures and try to follow your steps when the weather warms up a bit.
I forgot who said it above but I agree with who posted it.
I remember when I was traveling up North for about 500 miles that the dealer...i mean stealer told me that if I don't fix the leaking fork seals and tire rot, it could cause the brakes to fail, and cause an accident.
When I talked to a stealer in NY, he said that was horse shit.
Quote from: MarylandMagnav45 on January 23, 2009, 04:34:39 PM
Non-Synthetic. Should I use Synthetic? What are the advantages vs. disadvantages?
You will get very widely different opinions on this one..
Here is my opinion..
If you don't ride much, go conventional..
IF you forget to change your oil on time, drive more than 5K miles a year, want your motor to be better lubricated because you plan to keep your bike for a long time, etc.. then consider synthetic..
Synthetic is a better lubricant which reduces wear. Good Synthetics like Royal Purple, Amsoil, or Mobile one also have better rust and corrosion inhibitors and better suspend the particulates.
I have a technical write up comparing many of the oils available for both 20-50 and 10w40. It lists all of the standard test to determine the qualities of oils and shows the results for each.. Most people do not want to get this deep into the study, but it is pretty well written and provides an explaination of what each test means..
Down side of synthetics is the cost and it will leak more if a space is available...
QuoteGood Synthetics like Royal Purple, Amsoil, or Mobile one also have better rust and corrosion inhibitors and better suspend the particulates.
Notice who Hoot put first my plans are working :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: roboto65 on January 25, 2009, 07:24:27 AM
QuoteGood Synthetics like Royal Purple, Amsoil, or Mobile one also have better rust and corrosion inhibitors and better suspend the particulates.
Notice who Hoot put first my plans are working :lol: :lol: :lol:
I was thinking of you when I wrote it.. Also notice that Hoot doesn't use the 1st item listed.. I think the purple would clash with my yellow bike!!! (http://i41.tinypic.com/15wi5oj.jpg)
Quote from: hootmon on January 25, 2009, 09:04:27 PM
I think the purple would clash with my yellow bike!!! (http://i41.tinypic.com/15wi5oj.jpg)
Hoot's yellow bike meets Royal Purple.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr80/MOOT-Photos/3n43k83o41171fb12891c86e09a5159be1f.jpg)
I use Rotella synthetic in my bike. Not real expensive and have read good reviews.