Hi all
I'm going to clean the carbs this winter, following Gregs excellent instructions. The bike is stock, except from K&N airfilter.
Questions;
- What shims should be added?
- What is the reccomended settings for the carbs with shims?
- Do these shims have to come from Dave D or could I buy something from a hardwarestore or maybe make them myself?
- Can they be made from brass or aluminum sheet metal. Anyone know the meassures?
Send me your mailing address and I will send ya some shims. Remind me again where your located? If you close I will help ya.
Also pick up from MacTools the carb "D" shaped jet tool to adjust the pilot jets.
"If you close I will help ya."
Yeah Greg... You need a vacation..
Take the wife!!! :lol:
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2q83h2o.jpg)
go help Cannon!!!
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2reo7yx.jpg)
Maybe he has a 2nd bike and you can go for a nice bike ride!!! Although this may not be the best time of year!!
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2vjsbhd.jpg)
Cannon - 1 thing to Greg's instructions.. They state to push on the needle to remove.. This could damage the needle, which I know you do not want to do.. what I found best is you can take one of the screws you removed to get to the needle, you can thread that right into the backside of the needle and pull the needle out. This is what is recommended in the manual for the needle extraction..
Hoot, ya beat me to it! Put wings on the Valk and fly away. :-P
Quote from: hootmon on November 10, 2009, 07:26:05 AM
"If you close I will help ya."
Yeah Greg... You need a vacation..
Take the wife!!! :lol:
go help Cannon!!!
Maybe he has a 2nd bike and you can go for a nice bike ride!!! Although this may not be the best time of year!!
Cannon - 1 thing to Greg's instructions.. They state to push on the needle to remove.. This could damage the needle, which I know you do not want to do.. what I found best is you can take one of the screws you removed to get to the needle, you can thread that right into the backside of the needle and pull the needle out. This is what is recommended in the manual for the needle extraction..
If I ever get a chance to go ride in Norway, I'm going to jump on it! The scenery on Bikepics from that part of the world is spectacular. :cool:
Quote from: Greg Cothern on November 10, 2009, 05:45:32 AM
Send me your mailing address and I will send ya some shims. Remind me again where your located? If you close I will help ya.
Also pick up from MacTools the carb "D" shaped jet tool to adjust the pilot jets.
This is fantastic! Sent you an email :D
The carbs are off the bike :D
Exiting operation, but with the superb instuctions from the tips and tricks pages its not to bad.
One extra tip; a few drops of wd40 on top of the rubber boots made the removal process a lot easier.
The bowls are off, slow jets has been cleaned and i wonder why the main jets should not be cleaned?
Shim kit is ordered from DD, but I think I will have to check if the d-shaped tool for the pilot screws comes with the kit. Anyone who knows?
(I did not order the jet kit.)
Is there anything else that should be done once the carbs are off? Mileage is 30K miles.
No need to clean the main jets as they are large enough to NOT clog etc. The reason the smaller jets clog is they are small enough fuel will not flow out of them when left in the garage. The fuel still in the jet will dry and clog the jet.
While waiting for parts from DD I'm doing a littel "research" on CV Carbs.
I found a lot of interesting reading on the subject. This one gives a good overview;
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5707560/description.html
I noticed the following;
"However, when the throttle is operated quickly or at near wide open conditions, the response of the slide (the lift rate) affects performance, fuel economy and emissions. The lift rate of the slide which is generally linear, is in turn related to the size (cross sectional area) of the holes in its lower surface. For good economy, the holes are kept small so that the slide responds slowly to the increase in volume of incoming air. While small holes provide good economy, the resulting slow lift rate provides poor performance in response to the throttle. For good performance, bigger holes or more holes are added, which allows the slide to lift quickly (i.e., provide more rapid vacuum effect in the interior of the slide for a faster lift). While larger holes provide good performance, the resulting rapid lift rate provides poor fuel economy and increased output of noxious emissions, such as carbon monoxide, particularly at low and mid range throttle conditions. "
Anyone with experience or ideas about increasing performance by enlarging the holes that provides the vacuum to the diaphragm? I have found descriptions on the same subject for increasing performance on HD bikes.
The Dyna-jet kits have you drill them, and my last Magna had them drilled. Good throttle response, but not sure its all do too the drilled slides.
Just be careful if you drill em as they can easily be cracked or tear the diaphragm.
i've got great throttle response just from changing jets. not sure what your setup is, but it can be overcome with jetting and not drilling the slides. also, some of those kits come with different tapered needles and different spring rates to supposedly aid in lifting the slides faster.
Hi again :D
Hope you all had a nice xmas.
Shims and d-tool arrived from DRP today. Carbs are cleaned and ready for shims.
Ambient temp here in Oslo is -15 degrees C. Went snowboarding today, celebrating newyears evening tomorrow and will do the carbs on newyears day. And then just wait 3 months for safe ridingconditions :-?
Are you planning on putting it back together and running it occasionally? I wouldn't leave the carbs or the tank dry for three months. Also, I would fill the carb bowls and check for leaks before I put the carb back on the bike, it really sucks to have to pull the carbs back off the bike over a gasket leak.
anyway good luck..
Shims are in place and the carbs are ready to be put back on the bike. Tank is full, and thanks for the tip to test the gaskets before installing :D The bike will be started up as soon as the carbs are back on, but I will have to wait for warmer weather. Too cold in the garage theese days 8)
Question when mounting the carbs back on the bike;
In the tips & tricks sectioon is says
"Next you will need to loosen the rubber boots (several turns you want them loose quite a bit) at the carbs don't loosen the bottom at the head intakes. Your are ready to pull the carbs off, but they are in the rubber boots pretty snug". This is what I did when I took them off.
In the description from DD, following the shims, It's described that the rubber boots should be loosend at the other end, at he head intakes. Which one is the better for putting the carbs back on again, pre-mounting the boots on the carbs or on the head intakes?
Yeah, I noticed this discrepancy in experts' opinions myself. Since I know Greg but have never met Dave Dodge, I chose to "dance with the girl who brought me" to this point. I have done two bikes using this method, and found that replacing the carbs was much easier than removing them. :-D
I thought about following DD's instructions on the second bike, but only for a second... " naaaahhhhh, let's go with what you already know works". :cool: :cool:
This doesn't answer your question, I know. Sorry.
When you remove the carbs you should loosen the clamps on the engine side and the boots come off with the carbs. When you put them back on I always set the carb and boots on the rear first and press down till seated then the tricky part you need to pry the nubs tits whatever you call them heheh out and the carbs will drop slightly then comes the hard part pushing them the rest of the way a little grease helps before you start.
My opinion, and I've done it twice this way successfully (not quite the number that others have done, but it works for me), is neither. I leave the boots loose on both ends. I apply a thin layer of synthetic grease to both ends of the boots, place them loosely over the engine end, slide the carb bank in, place the boots almost in a straight line between the engine and carbs (I say straight, but they'll still be at a angle of a wider "V" then the engine, i.e., more level, hook the outside edge (engine outside, head sides...) of the boot over the top of the engine port, the inside boot edge is on the top of the inside port, just slightly over it, but not on it. Then push hard directly down on the carb bank, even pressure from front to back, left to right.
I know this isn't how it's documented here, but I read somewhere that this is how it was done at the factory (fact or fiction, don't know for sure) and it has worked well for me.
Rod.
Hey if it works I will try it next time I get to ork on a Magna sounds like an idea the only thing that might have to change would be the clamp configuration
Hello again
Finally temperatures that makes it possible to do some work on the bike 8-)
What is the recommended setting for the pilot screws on a 3. gen with following setup;
- dd needle shims
- k/n airfilter
- stock jets, exhaust and everything else
Quote from: Cannon on February 26, 2010, 09:23:06 AM
Hello again
Finally temperatures that makes it possible to do some work on the bike 8-)
What is the recommended setting for the pilot screws on a 3. gen with following setup;
- dd needle shims
- k/n airfilter
- stock jets, exhaust and everything else
What are they now, what issues do you have, what's your elevation, temps in the summer?
2 3/4 turns out, you can go more if needed, some go 3 or a little more, but that should do a good job for you.
Look at this thread to see what others have done.
http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=2119.0
They were set to a bit less than 2 1/2 turns out from a light seating. Put the carbs back on today and set the pilots to 2 3/4. Started her up and it all seems ok. Cant really know the final result before testriding. With the snow still falling I guess the first ride will have to wait for at least 6 weeks.
Another queston; the fuel vacuum valve was stuck and i had to fix it. While doing the manual tests before putting it back I discovered that the valve opens as it should when applying vacuum. What I did not expect was that the valve remained open after cutting off the vaccuum. There is actually a tiny one-way air-valve in the housing, in the part where the vaccum hose enters the valve, and this air-valve restricts air flowing back into the vacuum camber. The return spring inside the chamber is for this reason not able to shut off the fuel when vaccum is cut off.
Anyone know why this is? I left the thing for 2 hours and it did not close during this period. This means that a bike with bad float valves could risk having the cylinders filled with gass over time. What would be the idea with a vacuum valve that opens once and never closes?
Test ride yesterday. First ride in 2010. The carb cleaning and needle shims works great. Better throttle response ang midrange power. Perfect! Looking forward to warmer days 8-)
Quote from: Cannon on March 14, 2010, 04:17:41 AM
Test ride yesterday. First ride in 2010. The carb cleaning and needle shims works great. Better throttle response ang midrange power. Perfect! Looking forward to warmer days 8-)
Glad to hear it.. Sounds like you got out sooner than you expected..
I'm surprised you did not get a response to your Vacuum shut off question, You may want to start that as a separate thread..
I think your valve is bad. When I pulled mine to check a fuel flow problem, I tested it to find that it closes almost immediately when vaccuum is lost.
And now, after some riding in warmer conditions I must say that the needle schims are great. Cleaned carbs, shims and pilot screws 2 3/4 out makes it a "new bike". No decel pop, no flat spot in midrange and much better throttle responce 8-) This mod is highly recomended. Thanks for all good tips.
Anyone know what to expect from gas mileage after this mod? Better or worse, or as it was?
At low altitude (approx 1000 feet ASL), my mileage dropped from about 53 to about 45 mpg. For some strange reason, when I rode for a week in Colorado (average around 6000 feet ASL) the mileage went up to 55+. I ride within the speed limits, typically 55 to 70 mph.
My wife's Magna dropped from 50 down to 45 mpg when we put the Cobra Drag pipes on it. I'm hoping the carb work will bring it back up. Although the bike runs fine now, the extra 5 mpg would be nice. let us know how your mileage turns out..
Lawrence I don't know if it is the fuel formulation up there or the dense cool air, but I have had the same experience with my Valk and my Chevy truck. I once got 23 mpg over a tankfull with a Vortec 350 in a '96 Chevy truck in Wyoming. I thought it was a screw up on fill-up, but the tank before that was 21 mpg and the tank after was 19 mpg. In Texas the best I could get was about 19 and that was rare. More commonly 16 to 17 mpg.
Every trip to Colorado, my Valk gets the best mileage ever up there.
Curtis