To start, Thank You to this great group and wealth of knowledge. I've picked up a LOT of knowledge about my 2003 magna here and put it to good use. My favorourite was the Valk tank conversion, since I put on about 15,000 miles a year.
SO, I live in Ohio and want to lengthen the comfortable riding season by bumping up the alternator output (more heated gear please, especially for the woman on back). There are several options/questions/things I don't know. I have found on the forum that stock output is 374 watt, at 5000rpm. I max this out with a heated jacket and PIAA lights (even with LED replacements on instrument lights, signals and brake light). Yes, I do ride with both the jacket and lights on high at night.
?Did Honda make other engines with similar stator but with a larger output (for an easy swap?)
?Has anyone tried an aftermarket stator, for example those available from Rick's Powersports, or Esport?
?Local rewinding of the stator?
Since it's January, that means time to get the tools out and play...
Best,
Hop Along
electrosport offers a higher output stator (like an extra 100w output) if i remember right. try www.electrosport.com (i think)
First - Welcome Hop to the Forum from Floriduh...
Be careful with a re-wind.. Honda tried this on the GL1200 to up the amps from the GL1000. But to get the extra winding in, they made the wire thinner.. Yep you guessed it.. They had lots of fried stators as a result..
I think going with something like the electrosport (there are a couple of others) is the best you are going to do. IF you are going to up the stator, then I would go ahead and up the regulator as well. There are Regulators that up the output at that point as well. I'd buy a matched set from the same company.. I would also think about moving the regulator or adding a fan if you are going to up the output as I would think this would also up the heat..
Just do a search on Regulator failures (there are a couple of long threads) and some suggestions on moving the regulator..
Welcome, and keep us updated..
The spec for the electrosport stator doesnt seem right. especially since it's called "heavy duty".
This heavy duty stator can be used as a higher output replacement
for the OE stator. Output is about 20% more than the OE stator provides.
Power Output: 247W @ 4000RPM*
*The actual power output varies depending on the configuration
and condition of the charging system. Actual performance is typically
within +/- 5% of this value.
Bear in mind that a higher output alternator means more power that must be dissipated in the regulator as heat when the extra load is not present to draw the power. The regulators already suffer from terrible thermal management 00 as in, what imbecile thought the back of the plastic box for the battery, out of the airflow, was a good place to mount a device which needs to shed heat as effectively as possible? You might want to read Lawrence Ragan's posts on temperature measurements on the regulators he has recorded on one of his Magnas. It is pretty convincing evidence that the regulators run way too hot for good reliability of the thyristors used to regulate the voltage, particularly in hot weather. Some of the guys have relocated their regulators to get improved airflow to bring the temperatures down, and I seem to recall that Terry (aka tlram1) has mounted a fan on his bike to cool the regulator.
David,
You're right about the electrosport online spec seeming to be less than desirable, though I have seen on other model forums statements that their online info is incorrect. I've put in a question regarding this.
Rick's Motorsports has a stator listed (part 21-130) but I'm waiting to hear if they are able to list a specific output other than a sales rep saying it was 10-15% more than stock.
That is all I've found as yet. Hootman are you aware of other manufactures?
Also considering a digital readout voltmeter like that made by datel, to ensure all is well-but where on a Magna to mount it I haven't figured out yet....
Best,
Hop Along
that stat is wrong on the electrosport from what i've read, too. i think it is a misprint. it does fit other models, maybe check one of those bikes and see if the stat is wrong. also, it bimps down the output from 5k rpm to 4k rpm, which is more in the cruise range. even if the output wattage is very close to the stock output, the rmp's at which the max is put out is in a better,useable range. also, i'm pretty sure anything from ricks is just rebadged electrosport stuff. i don't think they manufacture their own stuff.
also, you could get a better battery, that would hold more of a charge. the one i have in my bike is maxed out for cold cranking amps, which is good in the summer heat too. it also has a higer Amp hour rating. it is basicially the same size as the stock battery, but it is slightly taller. it fits underneath my seat, which is a mustang seat, i'm pretty sure it will fit under the stock seat too. this is the one I got last year.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/YTX14H-BS.html
here is a pic of it installed, ignore all the other wiring attached to it :) the critical point i think would be that it be underneath (or lower than) the metal support behind the battery.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Good suggestion, Chad. Bigger battery will definitely help with starting issues.
However, if the total load he wants to run is higher than the alternator/regulator/rectifier system can provide, even a bigger battery will eventually run down.
I agree with Mike that a bigger alternator will probably exacerbate the regulator/rectifier failure issue. Having said that, it only seems to fail in the summertime, and mostly in hotter climes, so maybe along the northern tier of states a higher power alternator would be a good modification.
There are a lot of us that would enjoy a bit more electrical power, so I will follow this thread with interest.
Chad,
Quote from: Chad in Michigan on January 23, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
also, you could get a better battery, that would hold more of a charge. the one i have in my bike is maxed out for cold cranking amps, which is good in the summer heat too. it also has a higer Amp hour rating. it is basicially the same size as the stock battery, but it is slightly taller. it fits underneath my seat, which is a mustang seat, i'm pretty sure it will fit under the stock seat too. this is the one I got last year.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/YTX14H-BS.html
here is a pic of it installed, ignore all the other wiring attached to it :) the critical point i think would be that it be underneath (or lower than) the metal support behind the battery.
Didn't you have this one at one point:
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/sYTX12-BS.html
How did it hold up?
Quote from: hop along on January 23, 2010, 02:16:51 PM
Hootman are you aware of other manufactures?
I bought a regulator from www.regulatorrectifier.com and I have been happy with it.. It came with longer than stock wire leads which allowed me to relocate the regulator with no problem..
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2qcftcl.jpg)
They have several listings for stators and states "This unit has about 20% more higher output capacity than the OEM unit.
Power Output: 247W @ 4000RPM*
*The actual power output varies
However you stated:
Quote from: hop along on January 22, 2010, 07:09:02 PM
I have found on the forum that stock output is 374 watt, at 5000rpm.
So there seems to be a discrepancy between two statements.
Here is their stators listings that I found.
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1994-2003-Honda-VF750C-VF-750C-Magna-Stator (http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1994-2003-Honda-VF750C-VF-750C-Magna-Stator)
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1994-2003-Honda-VF750C-VF-750C-V45-Magna-Stator (http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1994-2003-Honda-VF750C-VF-750C-V45-Magna-Stator)
Not sure why they have two listings with two different prices???? Humm
They have several Regulator listings as well. One states:
Re-Designed and Improved OEM Honda VF750C VF 750C Magna Regulator Rectifier has a higher output capacity than the original part, and will not have the problems that you have experienced with your original. Designed to stop overcharging and dissipate extra voltage quickly
with 8% better Performance than the original part.
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1994-2003-Honda-VF750C-VF-750C-Magna-Regulator-Rectifier (http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1994-2003-Honda-VF750C-VF-750C-Magna-Regulator-Rectifier)
You stated something about a meter..
I saw this somewhere for a meter. it seems small enough that you could mount it up near the instrument cluster somewhere.. Search for voltage meter and the part number listed in the photo and you should be able to find it..
(http://i35.tinypic.com/347a3dh.jpg)
Quote from: lragan on January 23, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
I agree with Mike that a bigger alternator will probably exacerbate the regulator/rectifier failure issue. Having said that, it only seems to fail in the summertime, and mostly in hotter climes, so maybe along the northern tier of states a higher power alternator would be a good modification.
Hey - I suggested that too.. :shock:
It would also seem by statistics that the regulator issues seems to be a 2000 and earlier problem..
I'd still match the stator & Regulator from one company..
Quote from: LIMagna on January 23, 2010, 05:36:16 PM
Chad,
Quote from: Chad in Michigan on January 23, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
also, you could get a better battery, that would hold more of a charge. the one i have in my bike is maxed out for cold cranking amps, which is good in the summer heat too. it also has a higer Amp hour rating. it is basicially the same size as the stock battery, but it is slightly taller. it fits underneath my seat, which is a mustang seat, i'm pretty sure it will fit under the stock seat too. this is the one I got last year.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/YTX14H-BS.html
here is a pic of it installed, ignore all the other wiring attached to it :) the critical point i think would be that it be underneath (or lower than) the metal support behind the battery.
Didn't you have this one at one point:
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/sYTX12-BS.html
How did it hold up?
No, that is the one I found that would be a direct replacement for the stock battery, in physical size, but i think it does offer a little more than the stock battery, plus it is a sealed gel-type battery i think. I wanted something with more cold cranking amps so i searched batteries by their physical size that would fit in that space and then looked for the max CCA that I could get with the most Ah rating, and that seems to be the one. When searching initially that is the one I was going to get.
Quote from: hop along on January 22, 2010, 07:09:02 PM
To start, Thank You to this great group and wealth of knowledge. I've picked up a LOT of knowledge about my 2003 magna here and put it to good use. My favorourite was the Valk tank conversion, since I put on about 15,000 miles a year.
SO, I live in Ohio and want to lengthen the comfortable riding season by bumping up the alternator output (more heated gear please, especially for the woman on back). There are several options/questions/things I don't know. I have found on the forum that stock output is 374 watt, at 5000rpm. I max this out with a heated jacket and PIAA lights (even with LED replacements on instrument lights, signals and brake light). Yes, I do ride with both the jacket and lights on high at night.
?Did Honda make other engines with similar stator but with a larger output (for an easy swap?)
?Has anyone tried an aftermarket stator, for example those available from Rick's Powersports, or Esport?
Street Motorcycle: HONDA VF750C Magna, 94-03
Replaces OE Number(s):
31120-MZ5-004
Street Motorcycle: HONDA VFR750, 94-97
Replaces OE Number(s):
31120-MZ7-004
Street Motorcycle: HONDA CBR1100XX Blackbird, 97-98
Replaces OE Number(s):
31120-MAT-004, 31120-MAT-E01
Street Motorcycle: HONDA CBR1100XX Blackbird, 99-03
Replaces OE Number(s):
31120-MAT-E01, 31120-MAT-004
It looks like these bikes all share the same physical size stator, maybe you can look into how these bikes and their charging systems output?
It's seeming like all the online sources popping up are using two similar part numbers for stators: ESG520 or 21-130. Even the RegulatorRectifier.com site. hopefully I hear back from the two sites on actual outputs early this week.
I'll start digging into outputs on the Blackbird and VFR 750 to see what I can find and see if there is a comparison. The only place I've seen this info on the Magna was from this forum, so I'm not too sure where to get that info.....
I haven't had battery issues (and ride the CRF in the winter, not the Magna-too much salt and grit on the roads here for my tastes) in cold weather. I also don't think I see the heat many listers here see. Though there was last July when I rode near Houston in 110 degree heat-but at that point I was worried about ME roasting, not the bike. I don't know how y'all ride in that!
Meanwhile, playing on the ol dirt bike in Ohio (where it's 45 degrees and raining in january-what the?!?!?)
Hop Along
Hey Hoot, I purchased that LED battery gauge in chrome on Amazon for $30. Looks ok right below the gauges. Works great in letting me know it's time to tricklecharge.
Quote from: drkngas on January 24, 2010, 02:38:21 PM
Hey Hoot, I purchased that LED battery gauge in chrome on Amazon for $30. Looks ok right below the gauges. Works great in letting me know it's time to tricklecharge.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/24v5zsm.jpg)
Well shoot, Hoot!!
I presumed the "LED Battery Gauge in Chrome" was the one in the pic you already posted! Why should he post it again??? :???: :???:
Or maybe you are interested in his installation pic??
Quote from: lragan on January 24, 2010, 07:29:25 PM
Well shoot, Hoot!!
Or maybe you are interested in his installation pic??
Yeah... That's it.. Let's see the application of the product!!!
OK ALREADY!!
(http://i47.tinypic.com/nlsh07.jpg)
WOW! I don't even care much what my voltage reads, and I want one already!
Very cool.
Thanx David.. Very nice. I thought it might fit right there.
1) Do you think it is very accurate?
2) What is the little hole next to the 16V marker, is it to dim the lights when it's dark?
You know, before you start upgrading, you might want to just get a meter of some sort to see if you actually have a problem or not. Many times the "rated" capacity is the safe capacity and not what it will actually put out. Also, the amps used in all your stuff may not actually be as high as they state.
If it were me, I'd buy a guage first and upgrade as, and if, necessary.
Rod...
I purchased this on Friday over in Eureka Springs at Cycle Gadgets. It is a LED that changes color with the charge rate. Pretty neat. It is small and only takes up 1/4" of space for the LED. Put on my bike Saturday and wired a relay from my license plate lamp so it only comes on with the key switch. :-)
http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=BOVOLT
"I purchased this on Friday over in Eureka Springs at Cycle Gadgets. It is a LED that changes color with the charge rate. Pretty neat. It is small and only takes up 1/4" of space for the LED. Put on my bike Saturday and wired a relay from my license plate lamp so it only comes on with the key switch. "
just for fyi, you didn't need to go install another relay just for that little thing :) you could have hooked it up direct and it would work just fine. just another thing to go bad later on that's why i said something :) nice find!
Ya chad, guess your right, but I didn't want that light on all the time when the bike was off. Anything working against a battery when it don't need to just bugs me. And what else was I going to do on a Sunday afternoon... :lol:
Update, in response to inquiries regarding output of stators:
From Rick's Electric: "I don't have an exact measurement."
From Electrosport: "The listed 247w at 4000rpm is correct. What does your service manual say the output is? What we have found that the service manuals are typically off by about 20-35% so even if your service manual says it produces more then 247w I would highly doubt that."
So. Time to get out the voltmeter and test. Chad in Michigan, you had posted the number back in March 20th on a "New Battery" thread that stock was 347 watt at 5000rpm-for your 1995 magna yes? Just trying to clarify numbers, since the electrosport is supposedly 20% more than stock...and they list 247watt which they standby as correct.
Meanwhile I haven't found other info on other Honda models charging systems.
and that voltmeter does look pretty darn fine!!
Best
Hop Along...
Quote from: hop along on January 25, 2010, 06:49:19 PM
Update, in response to inquiries regarding output of stators:
Chad in Michigan, you had posted the number back in March 20th on a "New Battery" thread that stock was 347 watt at 5000rpm-for your 1995 magna yes?
Not 347 but 374 @ 5K, these numbers are in our owners manual.
terry is right, the number is posted in one of the manuals, be it owners or service, not sure which. i'd check it with my meter to see how many amps it puts out, but my meter only will go to 10a. i've tried and it will blow the fuse very quickly :)
Quote from: hootmon on January 24, 2010, 09:49:45 PM
Thanx David.. Very nice. I thought it might fit right there.
1) Do you think it is very accurate?
2) What is the little hole next to the 16V marker, is it to dim the lights when it's dark?
1.Yes, when i get down to one yellow light, it's time to charge.
2.Yes. and it reacts to quickly to brighten the lights which can be a distraction at first.
Ah yes, there in the owners manual, 374 watts at 5,000rpm. I'd been looking in the service manual... Good pointer Terry and Chad-
Hop Along
The manual's specification is vague. Is the claim for 374 W @ 5000 rpm a minimum output? A maximum output? Typical output?
If you take the parameter at face value, it is the output of the only generator (aka alternator). It does not specify how much power can be drawn at a regulated 12 V. It's easy enough to check with an oscilloscope and enough load, but as it is, it's kind of useless. If Honda meant only the output of the generator, that output is going to take a big hit due to the regulator. I would not be surprised if the regulator is at best 65% efficient, which would begin to jive with the numbers from Electrosport.
Okay, so after some consideration, too much time at work, and whatnot, I haven't load tested anything since I haven't had time. I have, however, ceeded my thoughts to NOT mucking with something that is working just fine.
So, I'll keep as is with what is already setup:
-LED's have replaced stock turnsignals (except rear), indicator lights and instrument lights behind the speedo/tachometer. Brakelight is also LED.
-90/110w headlight
-dual 55w PIAA auxiliary lights
-Heated Tourmaster Synergy liner, 74 watts
If I have headlight on HI, aux lights on, jacket on HIGH it will drain the battery enough over a few hours ride that there isn't enough juice to start the engine again. (not to mention dimming headlights)
I usually keep all the lights on hi; but being in Ohio (wind being an issue as well as cooler temps), being a 3 season rider, and preferring to be well-seen, sometimes there is a strong desire to have all things on at once (especially with the sun down and deer near the road).
Alternative options: remember to cycle on/off either the gear or the lights, but I've already deduced I'm not so good at remembering to do that.
My desire here with this idea was to be able to have the lights all on, along with my jacket liner and the the girlfriends. So, the tradeoff I think will be less night riding (at least with her), so the auxiliary lights can be of andshe can be plugged in. so, 110w-74w=36 watts difference in my favour. Which leads me to think maybe I can also wire in heated handgrips... :
So next thing to look at: heated handgrips. Been thinking Polly Grips.
Thanks all for your input,
Hop Along