Jennifer is a new member waiting for our Admin to approve her membership....in the mean time I will post her questions and any replies she emails here. I told her to watch this post for your replies.
Jennifer's issue.
Thank you. (the Thank you was to me so get to her question :-D) I have some pressing questions about my bike. I have noticed a very strong gas smell in my garage, and the dipstick area is very wet, and smells of gas. I'm concerned about the amount of fumes that are in the garage. This is the first time I have had a bike with this kind of problem, so Im worried it something expensive, or worse... my water heater pilot light is going to catch the garage on fire.
It runs great, but the fuel smell is really scaring me. I would love to bounce some questions off the group if possible.
Jennifer
Well she is signed up sorry for the delay anyhow what year if 3rd gen maybe the vachhum cutoff has a hole in it. Dipstick area you mean in the oil or around the dipstick it's self these are things that need an answer so we can get her back riding and she will probably answer me LOL herself when she gets on board which she is LOL
Oh and welcome Jennifer
Quote from: roboto65 on March 18, 2010, 08:49:02 PM
what year if 3rd gen maybe the vachhum cutoff has a hole in it. Dipstick area you mean in the oil or around the dipstick it's self these are things that need an answer so we can get her back riding and she will probably answer me LOL herself when she gets on board which she is LOL
Oh and welcome Jennifer
That would help, I thought you were mind readers, Jennifer is rubbing off on me.
1994 750 3rd Gen.
welcome Jennifer from Tampa Bay, Floriduh...
A couple of random ideas below:
Any chance you have a loose carb fuel bowl drain screw??
As queried before, the dipstick statement is a little vague.. So we need some clarification on that...
If you suspect that you are getting fuel into the oil, STOP riding the bike. The fuel will lower the viscosity of the oil and you can ruin your engine!!!
Maybe a Float valve inside one of the carbs is not quite shutting off.. It's not bad enough to flood the cylinder, but enough that a little gas is dripping into the cylinder and through the rings into the oil..
I also have a '94.. How many miles do you have on it?? (Not relevant to the troubleshooting)
Was the TSB#001 work ever done to the bike?? (There should be a "punch" mark next to the S/N on the neck of the bike if it was performed by Honda)
more than likely there is a problem with a torn diaphram in the vacuum fuel shutoff valve and what it does is flood the engine with fuel if it leaks out of the vacuum tube into the cylender. don't start the bike, it may hydrolock and damage the engine. check the engine crankcase for strong gas odor and/or look at the dipstick. if it looks like oil, it will stick to the stick, if it is gas, it will be mostly clean. that's where i'd start. :)
Oh, and if it were my bike (and my garage!), I would push the beast outside just to make sure there is not a fire from the water heater or some other source. Could ruin your whole day!!
Quoteand the dipstick area is very wet, and smells of gas
Unless the dipstick area is wet with a gas and oil mix, (which I would think would show up as over filled when you check the oil) then I would suspect the gas is showing up on the outside of the case in that area. I would definitely check the oil, better safe than sorry, if you can eliminate gas in the oil, trying drying the wet area with clean paper towels and when you start seeing the wet accumulating start wiping with toilet paper (easier to see and smell gas on) moving up from the wet area to see if you can locate it's point of origin. You might also check the vent tube to make sure it's still attached to the tank, what might drip out on the ground after a fill-up, may be dipping and accumulating on the engine. Just a couple thoughts. good luck..
Thanks for the information. Heres the scoop so far:
94 Magna 750, 11,000 miles. Doesnt look like it was ever dropped. I made my friend who owns an ST1100 very jealous :) I bought the bike 6 days ago from a lady who did not ride it for about a year except around the neighborhood. An idea from her ex-boyfriend but never took the time to get her comfortable riding this bike. Not really an entry level bike, imo.
Anyway, I drove it about 6 blocks, and it started to sputter. First thing I did was check the gas tank, and it was empty. Even on reserve, I barely made it to the gas station. After 3 full gallons, she started up just fine, and I have had no problems running after that. Runs like a champ, never stalls, and has a lot of get up and go. It does backfire slightly, but Im not sure if that is normal or not.
I parked it in the garage over night, and when I went out the next day, the gas smell was bad. I checked under the bike, ran my hand all over the engine as best I could and could not find any active leaks. I checked the dip stick to smell the oil, and it looks very thin and very full. My guess is that the gas is overflowing into the oil, but that is why I have come to you guys.
I thought that if I closed the petcock after driving in hopes that if that is causing the leak/smell, that I could prevent it from getting worse. It seems to really not make a difference.
When I say the dipstick is wet, I mean that even before I remove it, that is the only place where I feel any kind of "leak". And like I said, when I remove the dipstick, the level is way above the line and drips like water, not like oil and smells like gas.
Hope this all helps. Cuz I sure need it!
Jennifer
PS: I am leaving the garage door open a few inches since gas fumes are heavier than air. I cant smell the gas at all when I do this, so I think Im in the clear from blowing up!
(http://wawwb.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/img_0165.jpg)
(http://wawwb.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/img_0159.jpg)
Welcome to MOOT Jennifer.
My guess is like much has been said. Gas is getting in your cylinder somehow and running into the oil. One of my questions was going to be how long it has set, looks like you answered that. I bought a bike that did this and the oil gas mixture was so high it gushed out when running, I think I deleted all my photos.
Number one do as Hootmon suggested and Do not ride the bike w/o first changing the oil, this can ruin your Main Bearings quick.
What I would do is replace the fuel shut-off valve as seen in the photos on this thread.
http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=4202.0
And at the very least clean the carbs out well , if you have the funds to spare (doubt it would be much), replace the needle valves and these 2 items should eliminate the problem.
You could try Seafoam or cleaning the parts first, but with the bikes age and already have a problem the rubber is probably not pliable as it shod be in the valve. The needle seats might be fine with a cleaning but if they are not much and while I was cleaning the carbs, I would replace them and be done with it for good. Get onto riding and no more worrying.
Also read the Magna FAQ section located below.
http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=1917.0
As I have never worked on a motorcycle, and have changed the oil in my truck only a few times, I would have to say that a step by step instruction would be necessary for me to do much at this point. :(
Should I do this myself, is the fuel shut-off valve easy to get to? And not to sound like a dumb girl, but cleaning carbs sounds like something I do at the hospital for patients pre-op. Help?
Jennifer
You do have some good people down your way in the Austin area, maybe someone could put a wrench session together and give you a hand.
You can download a Service Manual from the FAQ Section for your bike that will give you step by step directions for the most part. The shut-off valve is not too hard to get to under the rear quarter of gas tank. Carbs for sure you need help as with the other items it sounds like.
Hootmon has plenty of time if you want to trailer to Safety Harbor, Florida. :lol: Once this is done you will likely not have issues with the bike other than a possible regulator problem, really good bikes, require little (as in very little) work but the do like to be ridden to keep the carbs clean and gummy stuff out.
Nice looking bike, appears you have been on forums before and I see you have the much appreciated Mustang seat.
Tell ya what after seeing what I saw at Charles :shock: 8) 8) I think you can work on the carbs no probem with a little help at first we will make you a pro!!! Heck make the wrench session while I am off the boat and I will probably make an apperance LOL
And as far as the oil goes you can do it no problem easy job !!!
Jennifer, welcome to MOOT.
Beautiful bike, no doubt. I love the color. (Once you see my bike you will see why!! :lol:) Hang in there, we will help you get it fixed.
I live near Austin, about 1/2 way between Oak Hill and Driftwood off 1826. Sending you a Private Message (PM for short, common on this board) with my phone number and address.
I have replaced jets and shims in two of these 3rd gen bikes now, which qualifies me as an expert. :roll: (Greg or Allen have done tens, if not hundreds, and are much quicker at it than I am, but they are in Dallas and Houston areas, respectively.)
Call me, we can work something out. No bike that pretty should have to sit for long!!
If you guys do something make it around the 10th or 11th and I might shoot over to watch !!! Off that weekend..
You have a real beauty there.. I know you are a little discouraged, but hang in there, you'll be smiling ear to ear before you know it!!!
I had a couple of issues with mine when I first got it.. I felt I couldn't depend on her to go very far at all..
Last summer I rode her up to Virginia and the year before up to Tennessee from Florida.. So, as you can see, I got over it, and so will you..
I was looking at the gas station picture above.. I've never seen a Kickstand leak so much!!! :lol:
That's nothing. You should see the flasher fluid leak. I already changed the winter air in the tires and adjusted the seat belt. So I'm getting there!
I have a friend who will take a look at it next week as he is out of town this weekend. But since I want to know more than him, I will come here for advice! ( I'm kidding. He is probably reading this now)
Nice Bike Jennifer and Welcome
I looked at your pics and saw all the gas on the ground at the Station and wondered if maybe you had topped it of and overflowed a bit. I know if I fill up and top off just before coming home I get a gas smell in the garage. How many miles did you ride after filling up?
I'm thinking the gas smell is only temporary and might have gone away by now.
Perhaps all it needs is a little more riding before putting it in the garage.
Slydnbye, I think maybe you missed this sentence from Jennifer's post:
"When I say the dipstick is wet, I mean that even before I remove it, that is the only place where I feel any kind of "leak". And like I said, when I remove the dipstick, the level is way above the line and drips like water, not like oil and smells like gas."
It seems to me there are two problems:
1) The fuel shut-off valve isn't.
2) One or more carburetors are leaking.
Unless, of course, she somehow inadvertently came into possession of a "California model", with all the extra hoses, valves, voodoo, and other junk. In that case, who knows what path from the gas tank to the crankcase may exist? :cool:
Yes, I figured the spill on the ground might lead you to believe its just left over. But I have run it about 50 miles since then, over a week's time. And I have wiped it down quite well. Also, a good portion of the spill on the ground was direct and never touched the bike.
Its going to rain much of the weekend, so I wont be as upset if I cant ride it. But I want to get it ready by next weekend.
How much do you think it will cost to do the above repairs?
Quote from: Jennifer F on March 19, 2010, 03:59:17 PM
Yes, I figured the spill on the ground might lead you to believe its just left over. But I have run it about 50 miles since then, over a week's time. And I have wiped it down quite well. Also, a good portion of the spill on the ground was direct and never touched the bike.
Its going to rain much of the weekend, so I wont be as upset if I cant ride it. But I want to get it ready by next weekend.
How much do you think it will cost to do the above repairs?
Again, I urge you NOT to ride the bike as is.. It sounds like your oil has been compromised by gasoline and will not lubricate your motor.. Deal with the issue(s), change the oil & filter, then ride to your hearts content!!!
Quote from: Jennifer F on March 19, 2010, 03:59:17 PM
How much do you think it will cost to do the above repairs?
Jennifer, the float valves probably run 20-25 each (need 4), say 100.00 and the shut off I would guess 40-50 dollars. We can supply (free!) shims for the carbs also to help it run better, if you want to replace the jets to 105 (5-6 dollars ea.) if not already done that would be beneficial while you are in there. The jets you can forgo and just do the shims if money is tight.
I would say 150.00 would get you covered, another 23 for Main Jets if you so desire, oil change would be 20.00. This is you are a group of yous doing this and no labor from the dealer of course.
You have a good man in Lawrence willing to help and Allen if he separates himself from his Captain duties on his tugboat. If your friend can do this, that's great also or he can have Lawrence look over his shoulder if need be for advice and help is always welcome.
Quote from: TLRam1 on March 19, 2010, 06:38:37 PM
Quote from: Jennifer F on March 19, 2010, 03:59:17 PM
How much do you think it will cost to do the above repairs?
Jennifer, the float valves probably run 20-25 each (need 4), say 100.00
Here are some Float valves (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CBR600F2-NX650-VF750C-CBR900RR-FLOAT-NEEDLES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e5ac39e27QQitemZ130371788327QQptZSnowmobileQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories).. $38 with shipping.. I'll let you keep half of the difference of what Terry Quoted you!! :lol:
Old Bike barn (http://www.oldbikebarn.com/Honda-Float-Valves-Needle-and-Seat_12?sc=12&category=52740) has them for $13.95 each plus shipping
cyclewareables has them for $9.00 each plus shipping look for CW18-4761KL (http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/carb_needle_seat_honda/carb_needle_seats_honda.htm)
Here is a fuel Petcock (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-vf750c-vf750-vf-750-magna-petcock-gas-fuel-valve_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33596eb54eQQitemZ220543759694QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories) for 38.00 with shipping on e-bay..
I'm not necessarily recommending any of these, just giving you an idea of actual prices you might get the parts for..
You can also get the fuel Petcock from BikeBandit.com or HondaDirect.com, but it will probably be more $$$ but new..
Hope it helps
Jennifer said the bike ran good after she fueled it up, since the bike set for a while isn't it possible that an oil change, Sea Foam run thru the next couple tanks that the floats and needle seats could clean up. Jennifer did you notice the oil level when you first got the bike, I guess I'm asking if this could have happened prior to your purchase. If the bike runs good after you change oil and filter you could ride and use your petcock to shut off the fuel when your stopped until your sure whether you still have a problem or not. A little trash could have kept the needle from seating during the time it was setting. It's not always neccessary to start with the worse case scenario, or the most expensive repair.
I think her vacuum diaphram could be torn, allowing fuel to seep from the fuel side to the vacuum side, draining down the vacuum tube and flood the cylender. If there were an obstruction holding one of the needles open, the vacuum shutoff would have to fail, not in the way I described, but fail open, and let fuel in that way and have a needle stuck. that's two problems that would have to happen to make a stuck needle leak that much gas. I've never heard of one failing open except for the other post about the fuel diaphram, but i think that is a blockage in the vacuum line or port somehow, or the return spring is too weak to force the valve closed.
Quote from: Charles S Otwell on March 19, 2010, 09:53:20 PM
If the bike runs good after you change oil and filter you could ride and use your petcock to shut off the fuel when your stopped until your sure whether you still have a problem or not.
It is possible, but it will cost you an oil change to find out.. IF the problem still exists, then the oil will get contaminated again.. (It may cost you an oil change anywayz after you replace some parts to see if the problems still exists..
My concern is riding very far with contaminated/diluted oil and the damage that might happen to bearings in the process.. You could just drain some of the existing oil out to a known level on the dip stick and let it sit a couple of days and see if it still rises.. In the process the level in the tank should drop an associated amount..
My 2 cents..
If Jennifer were a tinkerer and knew how to work on her own bike I could see a person taking the time and determining a little problem solving. As noted she will need help and if someone else is doing this for her or helping, I figure it's best to fix it right the first time with not a lot of cost in the overall picture and it's done, she will not have to find someone to go back in there and no worries on her part, she just Rides!
Hoot, I did guess at the OEM from Honda, she did not need a new petcock, but a fuel shut-off, again better to go new and do it right the first time. She is not one of us who can go back in easily to swap it out and may not have the tools.
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs434.ash1/24015_1274378894050_1067253870_30649093_486622_n.jpg)
My friend is back from Dallas after dealing with this....
Hopefully we can work on my bike since he is back in one piece!
I see the Magna in the garage his outside well at least you have your priorities straight :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Chad in Michigan on March 19, 2010, 10:06:44 PM
I think her vacuum diaphram could be torn, allowing fuel to seep from the fuel side to the vacuum side, draining down the vacuum tube and flood the cylender.
If this was the case, fuel would be dripping from the vent-hole between the two diaphragms, AND both diaphragms would have to be torn.
Jennifers issue could be caused by the same problem that I discovered with my vacuum valve, combined with one or more failing float valves. There is a recent thread discussing the vacuum valve no-closing problem on the forum.
Quote from: Jennifer F
My friend is back from Dallas after dealing with this....
I think your friend is crazy...
Hi there folks! Thanks for all the advice and suggestions thus far. I'm the aforementioned friend of Jennifer, so it's all her fault that I'm here. :P
I'd been suspicious of the fuel vacuum valve, and from looking around the Garage part of the forums that does seem like a good place to start. We'll keep you updated with our findings.
Welcome from Tampa Bay, Floriduh...
Nice ST you have there. What kind of Snow tires are you running???? :lol:
Does Jennifer's friend have a name? :-P Welcome to MOOT!
Quote from: hootmon on March 23, 2010, 04:59:17 PM
Welcome from Tampa Bay, Floriduh...
Nice ST you have there. What kind of Snow tires are you running???? :lol:
So your post is the one that kept My post from being posted. I waited while I received "someone from Florida just posted and clogging up the system"
Quote from: TLRam1 on March 23, 2010, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: hootmon on March 23, 2010, 04:59:17 PM
Welcome from Tampa Bay, Floriduh...
Nice ST you have there. What kind of Snow tires are you running???? :lol:
So your post is the one that kept My post from being posted. I waited while I received "someone from Florida just posted and clogging up the system"
Keep it up Terry.. You'll see just how clogged up the system can really get!!!
Jason here... I forgot to put my name in my sig, but it should be all fixed now!
So this evening we tore into Jennifer's bike for a bit. We found some really brittle old fuel hose from the petcock to the vacuum valve, and a piece of what looked like old, brittle, discolored aquarium tubing from the vacuum valve to the carburetor T-junctions, along with some hose clamps here and there that weren't really clamping much any more. It's obvious that someone monkeyed with these lines once before. This is all being replaced with fresh fuel hose and worm gear clamps.
Visual inspection of the outside of the carbs did not reveal anything abnormal... and the oil level on the dipstick didn't seem to have gone up from where it was previously. There was some wetness on the engine case near the dipstick hole, but it could just be a result of oil dripping off the stick, since nothing ran out when I pulled the stick tonight. The level is high though, but since I've no idea who or what dealer changed it last, I don't know for certain if it was or wasn't overfilled to start with. The oil has been drained and will be refilled tomorrow - I forgot to bring a funnel over tonight and Jen didn't have one. Jen knows the engine has no oil in it, and the keys are safely stored away from the ignition.
A check of the vacuum valve revealed nothing out of the ordinary. There were no signs of leakage along the outside seam, and when I removed the screws and checked the internals, they looked great. There were no tears that I could find in either diaphragm, and the piston moved smoothly without binding. The spring looked and felt fine, and there were no signs of leakage on the vacuum side of the internals either. I reassembled the valve and it seems to be working correctly when I apply suction to the hose going to the cylinder. No gas was found there either, the inside of the vacuum line was dry, and didn't taste like gas.
So what's the plan? Right now the plan is to refill the crankcase with oil, reassemble the fuel lines, and run a gallon or two of good clean gas and Seafoam through while keeping an eye on the oil level. If we're still getting fuel into the crankcase after that I'll bypass the vacuum valve, and if I'm still getting fuel in the oil afterward, I'll turn my attention to the floats and needle seats.
I don't think there's any serious issue with the carbs (mind you, I've been wrong before). I think the bike is really just in need of some TLC and, perhaps more importantly, being ridden regularly. My Suzuki had a heavy gas smell to the oil when I brought it home, and like Jen's bike it had been sitting for a while before I bought it. After an oil change, fresh gas and riding the snot out of the bike for a while, the bike runs 10 time better than it did when I bought it. The PO only started this Magna up once in a while, it wasn't really ridden at all.. such a shame to do that to a beautiful machine like this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed... we'll see what happens next!
Quote
Keep it up Terry.. You'll see just how clogged up the system can really get!!!
Now that you clogged up my PM's, I'll have to post more. :lol:
Thanks for the report, Jason. Spring is here, and the bluebonnets along the Willow City Loop will be out in force soon. We should all get together and ride out for a look.
If I can help in any way, just let me know with a PM.
Hi again,
Jason spent some time over the last few days doing a few things. First, the oil drained. It was overfull and smelled of gas pretty bad. Second, as he said above, we removed some sort of fish tank hose from the fuel hose that was clamped to the valve. The valve looked good and so he put everything back together, filled the oil back up, new filter, sea foam in the tank and took it for a ride.
Much less backfiring, and has a ton more pick up and go. I will check over night to see if the gas smell as lessened. I hope (crossing fingers)
Second question tho: Jason adjusted the clutch handle so it engages just at the very end of the extension. While its working as designed, I find that when I go to let it out and give it gas out of 1st, it easily stalls. The throttle is pretty touchy and limited movement gives a ton of rpm. Im not sure if its my grip is smaller than his, or the throttle is just too touchy, but its annoying and not to mention embarrassing, to stall out when taking off from a light. I did it 5 times before I was able to get her going and when I do, she wants to take off and run out from underneath me.
Is there something I can do to adjust either the throttle so it takes more movement to give less gas, or if the clutch can be let out some so my hand can reach it.
Thanks!
Never mind! My emergency road side assistance helped me! ( <3 Jason )
My clutch cabled wiggled out and was wide open. All should be ok. I will drive it tomorrow and find out :)
Remember you are dealing with a 750.. Even though the Maggie runs strong, it can take quite a bit of clutch slip to get her off the line.. The Throttle is a 1/4 turn throttle, so the RPM's do come up quick.. Bring the RPM's up close to 2000 and keep it there as the clutch comes out.. (which means you will need to add more gas as the load increases)..
I'm not trying to say you don't know what you are doing.. It's just a good technique discussion for someone who is new to the Maggie.
Hope the oil stays at the same level!!!!!