Well, it all started over a year ago, but it is now finally finished. I am now the proud owner of a 1995 Honda Magna with CBR 600 wheels and brakes, and a VFR 750 engine. This thing is a blast to ride. This all started a few years after I bought the Magna (2006) and discovered how much I hated the brakes and tires but how much I loved the rest of the bike. So, I set out to find a solution. After hundreds of hours of research and postings on different forums, I finally came to a conclusion that the parts from a CBR 600 would fit the Magna. The biggest concern was the rear wheel since it had to be centered and the sprockets had to line up. All went to plan on the wheels, though I had a lot of trouble with painters and chrome shops. During the lull in work, I decided to drop a VFR 750 engine into the Magna's frame. It was not as simple a task as I had imagined, and in fact was harder than the wheel mod. I also added some extra items like an air dam, a MotoGadget speedometer, a hydraulic clutch, RaceTech fork springs and cartridge emulators, and Progressive 440 shocks. I am now running Michelin Pilot Road 2 Radial tires front and rear, and have EBC sintered brake pads at all disks. I have set up a site where you can see pictures of the bike in its current (finished) state. The link below will take you to those pictures. On the site menu, there is also a link to the Magna/CBR/VFR Project where you can find pictures taken during the whole process. If you have any questions, feel free to email me or leave a comment here or on the site.
http://web.me.com/gechoike/Chokses_SuperDuper_Magna_Site/Chokses_SuperDuper_Magna/Chokses_SuperDuper_Magna.html
[attachment deleted by admin]
Wow
stunning
awesome
The cobra paint scheme and chrome details are.....just flat out stunning.
Truly super duper! Congrats (again) on such a professional job (although I doubt many professionals could even pull that off).
AMAZING! I was eagerly flipping through the slideshow looking at every detail with wonder.
I gotta ask, since you replaced the engine, and made changes...
DOES THE BIKE GO FASTER/ACCELERATE FASTER AND IS IT BETTER IN THE TURNS?
:) :) :) :) :)
Wow, nice job! Certainly one of a kind Magna; I'd seriously look into getting a magazine to publish it.
Chokse, that is an awesome bike. Congratulations on a terrific job.
Perhaps you should open a custom bike shop...
Awesome job and love the detail that went into it. If I had a third thumb it would be up! :-D
Holy cow, George! (http://i39.tinypic.com/2i6ffag.jpg)
That is an amazing job of reengineering the bike! It goes far beyond what I had visualized from your earlier descriptions. It would be impressive enough just as eye candy, but the fact that so much of it is functional upgrade, too, is truly astounding. (http://i26.tinypic.com/28as5m8.jpg)
That is what the Magna should have been all along! 8-)
Hot damn!! That is amazing. Great job, thanks for sharing.
Hey, Chokse, are you on the V4Musclebike board? I'm sure the guys over there would love to see these photos and to read about what you did.
WOW that is one nice looking Magna. Great job !
SuperDuper Magna is Right!!! Great job!
Very nice.. Wait, veeeeeeeeeeeeeery nice.
Thanks for the compliments guys. The project took a lot longer than I had anticipated, and a lot of that was due to the "details". I had to plan out what the finished look of each part would be before I actually did anything, and that was very time consuming. Sometimes I think that more time was spent planning things out than was spent actually working on the bike, but I guess that's true of everything like this.
To answer a few of the questions:
Sledge Hammer: No, I did not post on the V4Musclebike board. I actually didn't know it existed. Thanks for the reference. I'll try to get over there and post the link.
1985v45Magna: First the bad news. For the next 1,000 miles, I need to keep it at low RPM because of the rebuilt engine (especially because of the new crankshaft bearing sleeves), so I haven't been able to run it at more than 5,000 or 6,000 RPM, and I'm trying to keep it under 4,000 whenever possible. The good news is that I can tell you while the Magna engine basically ran like crap under 6,000 RPM and then finally woke up at around 6,500 RPM, this new engine has much more pull under 6,000 RPM. It is really easy to feel the difference. It seems to have much more torque at the low end of the RPM range. Also, the sound of the gear driven cams and the VFR's crankshaft is amazing. No way to describe it, but when you hear the bike drive past (with the Vance & Hines exhaust) it sounds like a Ferrari or Lamborghini screaming by. It really is a nice sound.
To everyone else, thanks for the compliments and if anyone wants advice or information, feel free to contact me by email or post a question here. The braking power now is amazing, and I can't say enough about how much the ride is improved with radial tires on the wheels.
I probably could have spent less money in the end if I had just gone out and bought a new bike. But, I liked my Magna too much to abandon her and I also wanted a bike that would be unique.
Quote from: Chokse on August 01, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
Sledge Hammer: No, I did not post on the V4Musclebike board. I actually didn't know it existed. Thanks for the reference. I'll try to get over there and post the link.
Hope you'll pardon me, but I took the liberty of linking to this thread. It's just too good to keep it under wraps. :mrgreen:
Did you change the rack on the front end?
Swing arm, is that different or stock in length?
How do you like the Jardine controls vs the Mapam?
Did you blast the frame before paint?
Is the air dam away from the pipes far enough or is there a heat shield to prevent meltdown?
What color of blue is this and did you paint all the fittings or did the painter?
I had a few photos that did not show up, anyone else having this problem, one was the photo of no cam chain tensioner? I can't verify. :P
You are correct on the VTX headlight issue.
Are all your SS cables clear coated?
What brand of speedo unit is this? I like the Dakota's also but what you have looks good.
Did you fab a new triple tree?
You answered my next question
"I also have a Scorpio alarm system with perimeter sensor, so no worries about theft."
Is the rear fender stock?
Terry:
Not sure what you mean by the "Rack" on the front end, but nothing was changed on the front end other than adding the CBR fork lowers, wheels, and brakes.
The swing arm is stock. The only thing changed was the addition of a bracket stay for the rear caliper.
I actually like the position of the Mapam controls a bit more, and they don't seem to interfere (cover/block) with as much stuff as the Jardines do. But, the chrome shop melted one of my Mapam parts, and since the company is no longer producing the forward controls for the Magna, I had to get the Jardines. I got a good deal on them and paid something like $350 for a new set.
They have no media blasting of any kind in Korea. Instead, we used some kind of industrial grade stripping product that basically melted the old powder coat away. Then, what was left was sanded off of the frame.
The air dam is fiberglass and will only melt if they are actually touching the pipes for an extended period. The air dam sits about 1/4 of an inch from the pipes all the way around, so there is no issue with heat.
The blue is a custom mix that the painter came up with after looking at a picture of a Shelby Cobra 427. He said it is similar to a "Gun Metal Blue". The painter painted everything with paint on it.
If you are having trouble viewing some of the photos, be sure you are not using Internet Explorer. If you are, try viewing the site with Firefox, Chrome, Opera, or Safari.
All the SS cables are clear coated and the fittings are chromed stainless fittings.
The speedo is from a German company called MotoGadget. I didn't like that the Dakota Digital gauges only went to 8K RPM, and required the use of special sensors for things like water temp and oil pressure.
The triple tree is 100% original Magna.
The tank, side covers, front fender and rear fender are all stock.
That Magna is incredible. Excellent job on the modifications and cosmetics. Many modded bikes aren't worth any more money than a non modded one but I'd pay way more for yours. You really did a good job and I'm way impressed. I know it's not polite so don't answer if you don't want to but how much time (man hours) and money has been put into your bike?
If possible you should put up a good quality video of this as well.
Man hours are uncountable. I really couldn't put a number on it, but it is high. It was basically my weekend hobby for over a year. I guess you could reason that it kept me out of trouble. As far as cost, the paint was the worst of it. The paint was about $3,000, while the wheel and engine stuff was about $1,500 including tires. All the other cosmetic stuff is hard to put a price on since I had collected most of it over the years but never got around to putting it on the bike (like the air dam and many of the chrome pieces). I did get great deals on most of those items. For example, I got a full set of Cobra chrome bolt covers that normally sold for $200 for only $25 from a place that was going out of business. I spent many years scouring for deals so I could get what I wanted without breaking the bank. I think that if you include the paint, all the extra chrome and suspension pieces, and and wheel/engine stuff, I probably put a total of $6,000 into the bike. You should also know that I bought the bike for $2,000, so I am up to a total of $8,000 plus some "Hobby Time". Not too bad as it equals the cost of the Manga when new and I had fun doing it (and learned a lot as well).
I think I broke a few keys on my keyboard when my jaw dropped, (http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt33/tmds3/eek2.gif)
Quote from: Chokse on August 01, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Terry:
Not sure what you mean by the "Rack" on the front end, but nothing was changed on the front end other than adding the CBR fork lowers, wheels, and brakes.
That was suppose to be Rake, did you change the Rake on the front. :grin:
I think you received a good bang for the buck with the money put into it and now you have what many of us would like, a VFR motor in a Magna frame.
I'm using Firefox but on the slideshow some did not show up, I will have to go back and try looking without using the slideshow feature. I viewed all 70 photos, excellent job also taking the photos and adding descriptions.
I agree that your bang for the buck is good. That bike is easily worth the 8 grand you've got into it. Of course your time is also worth something but when it comes to hobby time you really can't count it. Time working on a hobby is fun not work. I'm sure there were times that the fun could have been easier to deal with. :P
That is awesome. I especially like the brake upgrade, as coming from the world of sport bikes previously myself, the brakes on the Magna can be a bit... disconcerting... Very nicely done.
Terry:
Got it. The rake on the forks is original. Nothing was changed to the triple tree, frame, or forks other than welding a few brackets for things (oil cup, rear caliper mount, rear master cylinder, etc.) to the frame and using the CBR fork lowers with the Magna's upper fork tubes. No change at all to the frame neck, forks (length or otherwise), or triple tree.
Quote from: Chokse on August 01, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
Thanks for the compliments guys. The project took a lot longer than I had anticipated, and a lot of that was due to the "details". I had to plan out what the finished look of each part would be before I actually did anything, and that was very time consuming. Sometimes I think that more time was spent planning things out than was spent actually working on the bike,
That seems to be a common denominator in ever jaw dropping project I've seen.
Yeah, you make one little change and that creates 10 other changes you need to make. It can really start to make your head spin.
There were days when I was pretty frustrated and was kicking myself for ever starting something like this, especially when I had all the problems with paint and chrome. That was especially frustrating since it was totally out of my control. Hell, I had never soldered a wire before this project. Now I'm a pro at wiring, and I think I know where every damn wire on that bike goes. :)
But, the good days outweighed the bad and most days were fun and always educational. It was also fun to let the creative juices flow a bit. It also helped that at the end of each day, I could see some progress and could get a better picture of what would be realized at the end of this whole thing.
So could one put CBR fork lowers and the CBR wheel, add the extra brake line and you have dual disk brakes? What's involved?
Yeah, that's basically it. You'll also need the CBR calipers, caliper brackets, and rotors, and of course the custom brake line and bigger master cylinder, but yeah, it's about that simple.
Mount the wheel so it is centered between the forks and then measure the size of the spacers for the axle. Once you have those installed and can verify that the wheel is centered, install the calipers and center them on each rotor. Then, measure and make the four spacers for those mounting points and you're pretty much done.
However, you will be left with a rear wheel that doesn't match and no speedometer (you'll have to go with an electronic speedo and they can be a bit spendy).
By the way, the front wheel was by far the easiest part of the project, but it was also the most expensive (other than paint) mainly due to the cost of the electronic speedometer. The rear wheel was probably the hardest part of this mod, but it was also the cheapest thing I did.
Again, absolutely stunning job on the bike; down side is, unless Korea has changed since my sampling, you'd better get that thing back to the states. You can't ride it there for fear of getting it ran over and you can't let it sit idle for fear of it being stolen.
Again, get the bike published, then get it home to the states!
The driving part is still true, but I've been doing it here for 15 years and have never had an accident. If you drive defensively here you'll get killed in no time. Drive aggressively and you'll live forever. Go figure!
As far as theft, foreign bikes are pretty much left alone because they are too easy to trace. The only fear is at night, but between the bike tent and the alarm with perimeter sensor, I think I'm covered. During the daytime when I am out and about, I put a cover on the bike when I park it somewhere. It's amazing, but if it is covered, Koreans basically ignore it or seem to think it's invisible. Leave the cover off and I'll have people sitting on it and having their pictures taken.
Man, If Honda had produced something like this instead of the 3rd Gen, they would have killed so many of the bikes that came out afterwords (Meanstreak, Warrior, etc), or imagine what these other companies would have had to come up with to compete!!!
Really Great Job.. I just had to post on another forum (none V-4)...
Yes, Contact several of the custom bike magazines.
IF I were you, I'd even contact Honda to show them what you have done.. Maybe they will hire you to help design and build the next gen V-4 by showing them how it's done!!! So many of the Honda's today are Boooooooring!!! **Yawn**. There is not one bike manufactured today that has me the least bit excited that anybody is even on the right track..
Great Job!!
Could you write up a little about the VFR upgrade. What parts you swapped out, what issues you had to overcome, etc. etc.. Or did I miss something?
Hootmon:
The VFR swap requires the VFR's crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods, gear cams, pulse generator, the majority of the gears under the right crankcase cover, the VFR carb bank, and the VFR Ignition. You'll also need four coils and I would recommend using both the upper and lower cases from the VFR engine. To save shipping costs, I used only the upper case, but it would have been safer and easier to use both cases from the VFR. Also, you can use either the VFR or Magna valves, but I chose to use the VFR valves and springs.
The parts listed above are the easy part. In fact, if you have a VFR engine, you can basically bolt the Magna cylinder heads to it and be just about ready to go. You'll need to cap off a few openings in the VFR lower case, and will have to cap off some areas of the VFR oil pump, but other than that, it would be close to being ready.
The hard part is the wiring. That took forever and nearly caused my head to explode. On the wiring, you'll need to wire in all the VFR CDI wires, clutch diode wires, and a few others that are escaping my memory at the moment. You'll also need to decide if you want any of the extra VFR wiring like speedo sensor, fuel gauge, etc.
You have created an awesome custom Magna. I love it. Like Terry I am interested in the duel brake in the front.
I agree with Hootmon that I am not impressed with the bike they are putting out today.
So Chokse - Your saying you can take a VFR motor, swap out the heads and it's a bolt in installation (other than all the wiring and crap)??? Do you have to swap the heads?? (why), and IF you swap out the heads, how does the cam chain get eliminated, because of the new cams??
Any Idea if the 800 will work as well, or do you need to go with a 750??? What year VFR motor did you get the parts from??
I guess if my Motor or Tranny ever crap out, That would be an optional way to go.. Kewl..
Hootmon:
That's a bit simplified, but yeah, that is basically the process. You will need to cap off some openings in the lower VFR case, and will have to cap off some lines in the VFR oil pump, but other than that it is pretty much a drop in procedure.
You do have to use the Magna cylinder heads for two reasons. One, the VFR heads will not work with the Magna exhaust, and second, the VFR heads do not have the mounting points for the engine fins on the Magna. I just had the VFR valves and springs put into my Magna heads and had the ports polished. That seemed to work just fine. Also, the cams drop in with no modifications. The only mounting points that are different between the two bikes are on the upper crank case. So, by using the VFR crank case, you take care of that problem. The cylinder head mounting points are the same on both bikes.
I will once again say that the wiring is a real pain and is the worst part of this project. This is the part that makes the process very, very difficult. The engine stuff is easy, but the wiring is a real headache.
Any VFR 750 engine from a 94-97 will work. Years prior to this may work as well, but I can't verify this. I can say that I doubt the 800 would work because the mounting points on the frame would be different and the 800 uses fuel injection, which would mean you'd have to figure out how to get the throttle bodies to work correctly and to get them wired in properly. Knowing what I know now, I'd never attempt that. Too much of a headache. If you really want an 800+ engine, you can get an 840cc big bore kit for the VFR 750 engine.
I can't see the slide show? The link now takes me to something from "Apple", and asks for a user name and password!!!???.... Anyone know where I can see the rest of this bike please, please, please!!!
J.
I see Chokse on ever now and than, if he does not respond you might send him a PM.
When Apple made the switch from MobileMe to iCloud, they killed all the iWeb sites, along with iWeb itself. This happened just about the time I was packing up to move back to the US from overseas, and was dismantling my bike so I could actually bring it back (in pieces and without the frame) with me to the US (times like those I really hate our government). So, I had no time to mess with it when the site went down.
Fast forward 1.5 years and the bike is in pieces (boxes actually) and I literally have no time to put up another website. However, I have gotten a new frame (with a Magna attached to it) and will have to get started on rebuilding my bike in the not too distant future.
In a week or two I will probably put an official request for help here on MOOT. Basically, I'm going to need a few of you wonderful guys and gals to come to my place (N. Ft. Worth) to help me take apart the Magna I bought. I'll sell or put into storage most of the parts and then take the frame to a welder and powder coater. Once the welding and powder coating is done, I'll need volunteers to come over again to help me put my engine and parts onto the new frame. If anyone's interested, let me know.
For those that are thinking about some of these mods, it will be a good, hands-on experience.
I'm in.
Post up when and maybe it will work with my schedule.
Dude, you are in my backyard.
Send me a PM when you are ready. I would be very happy to assist.
I would take a lot of additional pictures of this build. Hoot is right on. Contact Honda when this animal is finished and see if you can get them interested. You never know.
Wish I was close enough to come watch/help!!! dang.
Quote from: Smoked U on May 06, 2013, 08:59:02 PM
I would take a lot of additional pictures of this build. Hoot is right on. Contact Honda when this animal is finished and see if you can get them interested. You never know.
It seems to me that many of the changes to the 3rd gen bikes were done to control costs, and allow the product to be introduced at a price that would attract new riders. I know that the chain drive is more efficient than shaft drive, so one gets a bit more power to the rear wheel. It is also much cheaper, and ups the maintenance cost. The front brake is now one disk instead of two. Yes, with sintered pads and stainless steel lines, one can achieve good front brake performance, but with the soft front springs, who would want to? And don't even get me started on the cheap, chopped chicken feather stock seat. Nearly all the 3rd gens I know about have been modified at owner's expense to address these obvious shortcomings, while most of the first gen bikes I see are stock.
The mods that Chokse made are super, but they would price the bike where only the serious, well informed riders would be in the market space. Honda engineers may cheer, but the marketing types who run any successful production company would veto every one of them.
I have to admit it is rather fun, though, to customize the bikes to our own tastes. Just don't add up the cost of all the mods, or it will be somewhat depressing...
Quote from: lragan on May 07, 2013, 05:09:58 PM
I have to admit it is rather fun, though, to customize the bikes to our own tastes. Just don't add up the cost of all the mods, or it will be somewhat depressing...
The nice thing about doing it this way though is that you don't have to do everything at the same time. I personally don't care that I'll never get back what I've put into it ... that's a fact of life with just about all motor vehicles anyway. As you point out, we do it for the enjoyment of the process.
Quote from: lragan on May 07, 2013, 05:09:58 PM
Quote from: Smoked U on May 06, 2013, 08:59:02 PM
I would take a lot of additional pictures of this build. Hoot is right on. Contact Honda when this animal is finished and see if you can get them interested. You never know.
It seems to me that many of the changes to the 3rd gen bikes were done to control costs, and allow the product to be introduced at a price that would attract new riders. I know that the chain drive is more efficient than shaft drive, so one gets a bit more power to the rear wheel. It is also much cheaper, and ups the maintenance cost. The front brake is now one disk instead of two. Yes, with sintered pads and stainless steel lines, one can achieve good front brake performance, but with the soft front springs, who would want to? And don't even get me started on the cheap, chopped chicken feather stock seat. Nearly all the 3rd gens I know about have been modified at owner's expense to address these obvious shortcomings, while most of the first gen bikes I see are stock.
The mods that Chokse made are super, but they would price the bike where only the serious, well informed riders would be in the market space. Honda engineers may cheer, but the marketing types who run any successful production company would veto every one of them.
I have to admit it is rather fun, though, to customize the bikes to our own tastes. Just don't add up the cost of all the mods, or it will be somewhat depressing...
You mean the marketing types that approved the Valkyrie Rune and the Fury? Those marketing types???
Honda will wake their butts up one of these days and sneak a few things in. Why not send them an idea. Save some engineering costs.
By the way, how is a chain drive more mechanically efficient than a shaft drive? I must have missed that in physics class. I understand cost savings.
Quote from: Smoked U on May 08, 2013, 08:22:26 PM
By the way, how is a chain drive more mechanically efficient than a shaft drive? I must have missed that in physics class. I understand cost savings.[/color]
Complex topic with lots of different opinions. An interesting thread is here:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=125414
There are references to gear to gear efficiency in this thread, but they do not address change of axis. The necessity to change axes in both the transmission and the final drive are what cost the efficiency in shaft drive. The differences are not great, but chain is generally better, and belt drive is better still. In practice the belt drive wins hands down, because of lubrication deficiencies in the other two drives. (All the numbers quoted are for well lubricated drives, and the belt drive doesn't require any.)
I lost the link to a comprehensive study of chain drives that I quoted in a previous post, which was the basis for my statement.
Quote from: lragan on May 09, 2013, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: Smoked U on May 08, 2013, 08:22:26 PM
By the way, how is a chain drive more mechanically efficient than a shaft drive? I must have missed that in physics class. I understand cost savings.[/color]
Complex topic with lots of different opinions. An interesting thread is here:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=125414
There are references to gear to gear efficiency in this thread, but they do not address change of axis. The necessity to change axes in both the transmission and the final drive are what cost the efficiency in shaft drive. The differences are not great, but chain is generally better, and belt drive is better still. In practice the belt drive wins hands down, because of lubrication deficiencies in the other two drives. (All the numbers quoted are for well lubricated drives, and the belt drive doesn't require any.)
I lost the link to a comprehensive study of chain drives that I quoted in a previous post, which was the basis for my statement.
Ah So. Change in spacial axis. Ah see. Also rise in temperature of components in oil bath. Yes, fascinating.
But don't sprocket chain setups work only in planar configurations. How would you change an angle of axis with a chain setup? You would need to convert to angle cut gears, yes? Same thing with belt drives, Si?
Of course belts have to generate some heat from friction on cogs (I guess). I figured they were quieter. Gear drives on camshafts are loud (another indication of energy lost, creation of sound waves, maybe?).
Thread makes good sense, though. Thanks for the link.
How can I make some money from this knowledge? Must mix Kahlua in no fat milk, consume and contemplate. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Well, with the chain drive on the Magna, there is no need for axis change, since the rear wheel and the engine both turn in the plane of the frame. Hence the chain drive, (or belt drive -- I am tempted, if the conversion was not so expensive), is a simple transfer mechanism.
As for belt drive expense -- I have never done the analysis, but expect the "payoff" is in excess of 70,000 miles. Hope I live long enough to ride that far...
Hey there, I know this topic is a little stale, but can I get some specs/pix for the CBR wheel swap? Thanks.
Quote from: jamracing on October 25, 2015, 07:27:15 PM
Hey there, I know this topic is a little stale, but can I get some specs/pix for the CBR wheel swap? Thanks.
You could try to PM the original poster.. He does not visit very often.
It is a shame the link no longer works, does anyone have any photos of this build? I am very curious.
(apologies for bringing this old thread to life)
Quote from: admanajw on July 01, 2017, 12:09:23 PM
It is a shame the link no longer works, does anyone have any photos of this build? I am very curious.
(apologies for bringing this old thread to life)