Based on everything I have been reading, the noise I am hearing from my bike is most likely caused by a weak or broken spring on the cam chain tensioner on the front bank of cylinders. The noises other people describe as well as the conditions under which they have reported them are consistemt. So...
I ambled over to the local Honda dealership today in hopes they had one in stock. They did not and would have to order it. That's when the guy who heads up the parts counter said, "I have never heard of a cam chain tensioner going bad on a Magna. What would make you think that?"
I replied that I have seen multiple references to it by other Magna owners who have dealt with the issue and specifically mentioned the MOOT forum, at which point he scoffed and said, "Oh, them. I don't believe half the stuff they have in there."
I was interrupted by another customer before I could point out that MOOT members have a lot more collective experience working on Magnas than the guys at the parts counter do. Turns out the new customer's riding buddy has a Harley so they had to tell him what utter shiite it is. Funny, I know more people with Harleys than Hondas, and more Honda owners with problems with their bikes than Harley owners reporting problems. Huh. I left with the idea that I won't be going back.
Possibly not coincidentally, the owner was standing outside talking quietly with somebody she knew and saying that the dealership was barely scraping by. From what I could tell as I walked to my truck, it sounded like their sales were off about 60%.
Gee, with customer service like that?
Mike, sounds like you were ANOTHER satisfied customer leaving the doors of this establishment..
I know two people that are riding Harley's today, NOT because that's what they wanted, they wanted Honda's.
Both are women, and they both went into two different Honda dealerships and got ignored by the sales people.. They both went to different Harley dealerships and were treated well, and purchased their bikes that same day as walking into the Honda dealerships.. One of the Harley Dealerships even delivered the bike to her home when it was finished being prep'ed..
On a side note.. Went to a fairly new dealership (http://www.funbikecenter.com) today about an hour from our house. They sell Honda's and Kaw's.. (they also had one new Sportster, WT??). My wife was doing the talking and they treated her well, and were even willing to prep a Kaw 1700 for her to test ride, but we did not have the hour to wait for the prep, NOR the $$ to even think about purchasing a new bike!!!
They did have a NICE Used Victory Kingpin in Blue with Flames on the floor.. I think there is a Drool Pool still next to it!!! :lol:
They have a couple of VFRs sitting on the floor that I am sorely tempted to make a suitably insulting offer on, but I would have to trade my Magna and am just not sure I want to do that yet. Other than that, I can't see doing business with these goofballs anymore.
Quote from: hootmon on August 28, 2010, 10:02:32 PM
They did have a NICE Used Victory Kingpin in Blue with Flames on the floor.. I think there is a Drool Pool still next to it!!! :lol:
I have seen some really nice Victory bikes. Even though I hate the styling of the Vision, I have to admit their bikes are stunningly well executed and finished. (http://i37.tinypic.com/rhjp1c.jpg)
I would like to know who this dealership was??? Maybe even contact information.. :lol: Might do them some good to receive 20 - 30 phone calls from MOOT'sters to inform them of their lack of Magna knowledge.
Sold my Victory V92TC Deluxe at the end of July. This bike was my only experience with Victory, so I'm certainly not an expert, but here are my observations.
The Freedom Engine is frequently described as "Bullet Proof." I certainly never had any trouble from mine. I never worried about it stranding me. I belonged to the VOG (Victory Owners Group.) and can only remember a few threads about engine problems, and those, oddly enough, were on new bikes. Most of the posts I remember were resolved at the dealer by resetting or reloading the ECM.
My TC was heavy. (850 lbs dry weight.) and comfortable at highway speeds. There is a particular stretch of Hwy. 67 close by that a lot of my friends won't ride because it is too rough. I sort of thought they were wimps because that stretch never bothered me. Now that I'm on the Valkyrie, I stay off of it too.
Here are the weak spots:
At slow speed (30 mph<) it was an absolute pig. It's about 8 inches longer than most production bikes and has a substantial rake on the from forks. As a result, it doesn't begin to counter steer until over 20 mph. Add to this the fact that it was very top heavy, and you've got a bike that's a nightmare anywhere except on the highway. Especially if you have another bike. You can easily adapt to a lot of minor differences between bikes, but the counter steer issue is not one of them. Unless this is the only bike you ride, pulling into an EZ mart will always be an adventure. Especially if you're two up.
Lastly, Victory's superb engineering seems to have stopped with the engine. As I began detailing mine for sale, I realized how bad every chrome part was cracking or bubbling. This is not triple chromed steel. I used to laugh at how expensive Harley parts were until I began to realize that you often do get only what yo pay for.
Link to "Vic is gone" Blog on Texarkana Gazette website. (http://"http://www.texarkanagazette.com/Bikers-Blog/2010/08/01/big-vic-is-gone/")
It is truly unfortunate that "most" dealerships come across like this. I have also encountered many like this. Luckily my Honda dealership is very good to work with and very eager to help.
Quote from: Sledge Hammer on August 28, 2010, 09:37:04 PM
Based on everything I have been reading, the noise I am hearing from my bike is most likely caused by a weak or broken spring on the cam chain tensioner on the front bank of cylinders. The noises other people describe as well as the conditions under which they have reported them are consistemt. So...
I ambled over to the local Honda dealership today in hopes they had one in stock. They did not and would have to order it. That's when the guy who heads up the parts counter said, "I have never heard of a cam chain tensioner going bad on a Magna. What would make you think that?"
I replied that I have seen multiple references to it by other Magna owners who have dealt with the issue and specifically mentioned the MOOT forum, at which point he scoffed and said, "Oh, them. I don't believe half the stuff they have in there."
I was interrupted by another customer before I could point out that MOOT members have a lot more collective experience working on Magnas than the guys at the parts counter do. Turns out the new customer's riding buddy has a Harley so they had to tell him what utter shiite it is. Funny, I know more people with Harleys than Hondas, and more Honda owners with problems with their bikes than Harley owners reporting problems. Huh. I left with the idea that I won't be going back.
Possibly not coincidentally, the owner was standing outside talking quietly with somebody she knew and saying that the dealership was barely scraping by. From what I could tell as I walked to my truck, it sounded like their sales were off about 60%.
Gee, with customer service like that?
From what you have posted, I am pretty sure that all you need is a new tensioner; very quick and easy fix. It is usually a broken spring in the tensioner that causes the problem; I suggest that after you change it out, you take the old part to that dealership and discuss the advise you got from the parts office and show him what you found to be the problem.
I live close to the big dealer up on 114, and have been ignored and just gotten rotten service every time I go in there, so I quit shopping there, I now use a small Honda dealer on 121 headed towards Ft. Worth, longer drive but when I walk in someone always greets me. The biggest problem I have with the big one was when we were looking for our helmets before we purchased the bike, we walked around for 15 minutes without anyone even acknowledging us, when my son picked a carbon fiber $600 helmet , well then someone said something, he said " If he drops that you have to buy it" I told my son to put it down and we left.
Quote from: ryjb on August 29, 2010, 02:05:41 PM
It is truly unfortunate that "most" dealerships come across like this. I have also encountered many like this. Luckily my Honda dealership is very good to work with and very eager to help.
Yeah, my local dealership was "Really Helpful" recently.. Several of their reps were at a CanAm demo ride.. I mentioned that I needed a couple of O-Rings for my wife's 03 Sabre. One of the Reps (Scott), said..
No problem, I work in the parts department, I'll call right now and get the part ordered for you, we will call you when it comes in...
A week later I called and they said... Oh, I see that the part was entered into our system, but it looks like the part was never actually ordered from Honda.. I'll send the order now, we will call you when the part comes in...
A week later I go into the dealership, I asked for the original guy who called in the order (Scott) and the guy behind the counter says,
Oh, Scott doesn't work here any longer.. So, I explain that they should have a part waiting for me (I had
NOT received a phone call).. They looked.. No Part.. He ordered the part while I stood there..
About 5 days later it came in..
So, this Oh So Convenient, Super Customer Service, that was generously offered to me at the demo ride, wound up taking me 3 weeks, a phone call, and two visits to the dealership, to get two little O-Rings.. I'm glad the bike wasn't down waiting on the part!!!
I think I'll order my own parts, even IF it cost me more for shipping!!
The state of the economy should thin out the dealers, who don't provide good sales and service. :)
The days of yuppies lining up to buy are over.
The sad thing is that good dealers are also suffering. :sad:
Quote from: John Luttrell on August 29, 2010, 03:01:06 PMFrom what you have posted, I am pretty sure that all you need is a new tensioner; very quick and easy fix. It is usually a broken spring in the tensioner that causes the problem; I suggest that after you change it out, you take the old part to that dealership and discuss the advise you got from the parts office and show him what you found to be the problem.
John, if it is a bad tensioner, is that a serious enough issue that the bike needs to be parked until it is replaced or is it it okay to ride until some notably bad sounds occur?
Also, how much did you have to remove to get to the tensioner? It looks like a tight squeeze for any break-away torque wrench to which I have access.
Many thanks in advance.
Quote from: Greg Cothern on August 29, 2010, 09:44:32 AM
I would like to know who this dealership was??? Maybe even contact information.. :lol: Might do them some good to receive 20 - 30 phone calls from MOOT'sters to inform them of their lack of Magna knowledge.
I suspect if the guy ever really visits this forum, he should recognize himself by now. (http://i32.tinypic.com/ka4pl5.jpg) I always thought he was full of (http://i40.tinypic.com/24ecr6f.jpg) anyway. They've got a fairly young guy working there who seems much more knowledgeable and doesn't toss out unsubstantiated crap like his boss.
I hope the kid with the Sportster was sharp enough to ask if Honda's are so damn good, why are those guys working behind a Honda parts counter? No, wait -- they're the Maytag repair man's less fortunate brothers. Yeah, that's it! (http://i50.tinypic.com/1zx1fgm.jpg)
I personally would not ride mine with a known bad tensioner, however, I know of at least a few guys that had theirs go out hundreds of miles from home and rode them the rest of their trip with no ill effects on the bike. I would be afraid of metal contamination in the oil, because the noise is from the cam chain hitting things it shouldn't.
The tensioner is a tight squeeze but not a hard repair to do yourself. There is a small tool you will need to make in order to install the new tensioner; you have to retract the tensioner and this tool will hold it retracted until it's installed. You then remove the tool and the tensioner is released and doing it's job. Here is the page out of the manual that explains how to make and use the tool; give me a yell if you have any problems or more questions.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/16h23pd.jpg)
Sledge:
Get a woman to go in there and tell them how to fix the bike!
Sit back and watch the faces on the guys behind the counter as she tells them what the problem was and here's the part she had to replace!
Yeah! Sexism and mechanics - my favorite discussion!
:D 8-) :lol:
Quote from: Indonlire on August 29, 2010, 09:43:16 PM
Sledge:
Get a woman to go in there and tell them how to fix the bike!
Sit back and watch the faces on the guys behind the counter as she tells them what the problem was and here's the part she had to replace!
Yeah! Sexism and mechanics - my favorite discussion!
:D 8-) :lol:
A good friend of mine who, very sadly, is no longer with us had a gal pal who just happened to be a professional mechanic (Mercedes, I think) and also happened to be quite a looker. The lady mechanic drove a temperamental British sports car and was forever being "assisted" by hamfisted shadetree mechanics any time she put the hood up in a parking lot. As long as they didn't wander too far off course and actually look like they were going to break something, she would indulge their egos, thank them profusely for getting her out of her predicament, and then send them on their way before driving off to a more secluded spot to make the correct adjustments or repairs. :lol:
Quote from: John Luttrell on August 29, 2010, 08:53:24 PM
I personally would not ride mine with a known bad tensioner, however, I know of at least a few guys that had theirs go out hundreds of miles from home and rode them the rest of their trip with no ill effects on the bike. I would be afraid of metal contamination in the oil, because the noise is from the cam chain hitting things it shouldn't.
The tensioner is a tight squeeze but not a hard repair to do yourself. There is a small tool you will need to make in order to install the new tensioner; you have to retract the tensioner and this tool will hold it retracted until it's installed. You then remove the tool and the tensioner is released and doing it's job. Here is the page out of the manual that explains how to make and use the tool; give me a yell if you have any problems or more questions.
John, thanks for the guidance. I probably put about two hundred miles on the bike before I began to realize what the noise might be. I think I will cry, though, as I pour out the fresh batch of Mobil 1 currently in the crankcase. That stuff ain't cheap. (http://i42.tinypic.com/2h4kbpx.jpg)
Quote from: Sledge Hammer on August 29, 2010, 11:20:40 PM
I think I will cry, though, as I pour out the fresh batch of Mobil 1 currently in the crankcase. That stuff ain't cheap.
Imagine the tears you would have shed over replacing a transmission! Oil is probably the lowest cost item in the case...
Quote from: John Luttrell on August 29, 2010, 08:53:24 PM
The tensioner is a tight squeeze but not a hard repair to do yourself. There is a small tool you will need to make in order to install the new tensioner; you have to retract the tensioner and this tool will hold it retracted until it's installed. You then remove the tool and the tensioner is released and doing it's job. Here is the page out of the manual that explains how to make and use the tool; give me a yell if you have any problems or more questions.
There is no need to make that little "T" tool because one comes with the new tensioner from Honda. Also be sure that they order the front one and not the rear one because they are NOT the same.
Remove the fake air cleaners and the air cleaner mounting bracket on the LEFT side (you'll have to take the single gas tank mounting bolt out to shift the tank up in order to get to the top bolt of the cleaner bracket) and you'll be able to get to it. A 1/4" torque wrench fits nicely in the gap on the install.
Sadly I know this repair TOO well :shock:
Quote from: Gloveberg on September 13, 2010, 03:36:28 AM
Quote from: John Luttrell on August 29, 2010, 08:53:24 PM
The tensioner is a tight squeeze but not a hard repair to do yourself. There is a small tool you will need to make in order to install the new tensioner; you have to retract the tensioner and this tool will hold it retracted until it's installed. You then remove the tool and the tensioner is released and doing it's job. Here is the page out of the manual that explains how to make and use the tool; give me a yell if you have any problems or more questions.
There is no need to make that little "T" tool because one comes with the new tensioner from Honda. Also be sure that they order the front one and not the rear one because they are NOT the same.
Remove the fake air cleaners and the air cleaner mounting bracket on the LEFT side (you'll have to take the single gas tank mounting bolt out to shift the tank up in order to get to the top bolt of the cleaner bracket) and you'll be able to get to it. A 1/4" torque wrench fits nicely in the gap on the install.
Sadly I know this repair TOO well :shock:
Thanks for the tips, Jimmy. I forgot that you had become the de facto expert on this. I just hope I caught this one in time. I am not planning on opening up valvetrain to look around. Just hope the filter caught any metal particles.
QuoteSadly I know this repair TOO well
Hey Jimmy, I hope this problem isn't still chasing you, I'm convinced that it was something to do with your bike and not your riding style, we're still running the same part we took off your bike and repaired.
Well, folks, thanks to your helpful comments, I now have finished the job of replacing the front camshaft tensioner.
Naturally, this would not have been an especially tedious job for the dainty Japanese hands which designed this machine. I made two purchases which made the job infinitely easier than it started off being. One was NAPA's very nice 1/4" drive breakaway ratcheting torque wrench -- pricey but worth every penny I paid for it, and unlike the Crapsman stuff from Sears, comes with a real calibration printout so you can gauge its accuracy. The second tool worth its $4.96 pre-tax asking price was a telescoping magnetic pick-up tool, which came in very handy for fishing out the cam chain tensioner "cap" bolt before I found out the secret to threading the damn thing in place. It was almost as useful as the skinny flatblade screwdriver with tip wrapped in sunnyside-up masking tape which I used to fish out the accompanying copper sealing washer when it inevitably would drop into the valley between the cylinder banks.
Whining aside, should I ever set foot in the local Honda dealership again, I can confirm to the smartass at the parts counter that indeed the tensioner had gone bad. All I hear now at 3500 rpm is the normal whirring sound of the cam chain, no peas-in-a-coffee-can rattling sound. In other words,
MOOT -- +1
Local Honda Parts Clown -- 0
Great to hear your back in business, now don't throw that old part away it's repairable, if your not going to mess with it send it to me I'll put it in my spare parts bin :cool:
Quote from: Charles S Otwell on September 22, 2010, 02:23:33 AM
Great to hear your back in business, now don't throw that old part away it's repairable, if your not going to mess with it send it to me I'll put it in my spare parts bin :cool:
Now haven't we had discussions about collecting junk? :mrgreen:
Uhhhhhhhhhh what discussion :lol: :lol: I do not even have a Magna anymore and I have a repaired one at the house !!!! If any one needs one..
Quote from: Charles S Otwell on September 20, 2010, 02:54:03 AM
QuoteSadly I know this repair TOO well
Hey Jimmy, I hope this problem isn't still chasing you, I'm convinced that it was something to do with your bike and not your riding style, we're still running the same part we took off your bike and repaired.
Actually Charles I repaired the one we took from your bike once at some point and then ordered a a new one when the spring broke again. I'm no expert but if I have to guess I honestly believe that the cam chain on mine has stretched slightly (100K+ miles, 90K with me behind the bars riding like a bat outa hell :cool:) and that maybe that is putting more vibration on the nylon tensioner runner which in turn sends more vibrations in the spring. Maybe if I didn't take it up to 9K rpm's every chance I got that would help, no?
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Thanks for the tips, Jimmy. I forgot that you had become the de facto expert on this. I just hope I caught this one in time. I am not planning on opening up valvetrain to look around. Just hope the filter caught any metal particles.
[/quote]
I wouldn't bother opening it up. Throw on a filter and oil, run it a few hundred miles then change it again and you'll be fine. The Magna engine is like a tank
Quote from: Charles S Otwell on September 22, 2010, 02:23:33 AM
Great to hear your back in business, now don't throw that old part away it's repairable, if your not going to mess with it send it to me I'll put it in my spare parts bin :cool:
Unfortunately, the old one is not repairable. I had planned to reuse the three screws and sealing washers, so I did not order new hardware for the new tensioner. Unfortunately, the cap screw would not budge from the old one, even when I put it in a vise. The casting cracked but that screw never moved. I think it was corroded in place. I would up having to order another one (but used a dealership across town).
Quote from: Gloveberg on September 23, 2010, 05:18:54 AMI wouldn't bother opening it up. Throw on a filter and oil, run it a few hundred miles then change it again and you'll be fine. The Magna engine is like a tank
That's my thinking. I poured out $50 worth of Mobil 1 with less than 200 miles on it (http://i43.tinypic.com/kamjon.jpg) and replaced it with the Honda GN4 swill and a new filter to be on the safe side. It's relatively cheap preventive medicine.