After some on-line research, I offer the following hypotheses on chain wear, cleaning, and lubrication:
1) Chains do not "stretch" appreciably -- they wear. The wear is between the pins and the rollers. The distance between the "new chain" and "replace chain" markers on my '96 Magna is about 0.2 inches. With 118 links, (maybe 119 pins and rollers, we won't argue the fine details), and ignoring the holding effects of the sprockets, we have 59 links to divide the 0.2 inches. Thus, 0.2/59 = 0.0338", or about 3.4 thousandths per pin/roller combination.
2) The limitation on elongation is determined by the poor registration (mis-alignment) with the sprockets allowable for acceptable wear rates. Consequently, if one were willing to replace sprockets when the chain is replaced, more wear could be tolerated. As the wear continues, I presume the wear rate increases, until one reaches the point of failure. I have no idea how many more miles or fractions of an inch in elongation would lead to failure. In the absence of data, I will choose to replace at the upper wear limit which Honda engineers have established.
3) The principal cause of wear is "grit" -- tiny pieces of rock or other hard particles which work their way into the space between the outside of the pin and the inside of the roller.
4) The value of O-rings (X-rings, what have you) is to exclude grit from the bearing surfaces.
5) There are several functions of a chain lubricant -- reducing sprocket wear, reducing chain pin-roller wear, and prevention of corrosion (rust) are the main ones. Lubricant that will minimize sprocket wear is not the same as that which will minimize pin-roller wear. (http://books.google.com/books?id=BIEtt70piZ4C&pg=PA292&lpg=PA292&dq=study+efficiency+roller+chain+lubricants&source=bl&ots=PTDdRIv0Bx&sig=yLp07YU52AGKGw0FN5pKUWQ9WgY&hl=en&ei=XR7KTLDnB8WblgfZwYTDAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q&f=false) presents a controlled environment study of lubricants
In the study, a wax spray on lubricant was compared to a "Teflon" spray on lubricant, and an oil drip system. "Plain Jane Chain" was used (no O-rings). The wax lubricant was superior at reducing wear between rollers and sprockets, and the oil drip was superior at reducing wear between pins and rollers. They did not test for corrosion resistance.
I have concluded that a wax type lubricant, delivered via an evaporating hydrocarbon solvent, is best overall, if renewed at regular intervals. (A drip with light weight oil probably beats wax type lubricants, but I have concluded the advantage in chain life is not worth the mess and expense.) This choice is quite clear with O-ring chains, and more debatable with non O-ring chains. Others may draw different conclusions, as I am sure they will. Chain lubrication is a little like religion -- everyone has a little different take on it.
6) Applying lubricant with a system that provides total immersion of the chain links will provide superior results to spray application.
7) If we had an easy method for cleaning and lubricating a chain, we would do it more often.
So, in conjunction with my "Chain Bath" topic, I offer the following lubrication solution:
First, clean the chain thoroughly, especially if you have been using an oil lubricant. I use the Chain Bath to accomplish this task.
1) Dissolve as much wax (I use canning wax -- "Gulf Wax") as will dissolve in a reasonable period (like overnight) in paint thinner, or some other appropriate solvent. (Gasoline will work, but may damage your O-rings.)
2) Mark off a place on your driveway/street/garage floor about 20 feet in length. Position the bike to back over this distance.
3) Mount the Chain Bath fixture to the bike by placing the front over the top of the swing arm fork, and attaching the back with a bungee cord to the luggage rack or other convenient support.
4) Pour the wax solution into the chain bath until it is almost running over.
5) S-l-o-w-l-y back the bike over the 20 foot distance. I back about a foot, wait ten seconds, then repeat. Do not move forward. The chain will catch the edge of the slot, pull the front of the Chain Bath off the swing arm, and spill all the solution on the driveway. (Don't ask me how I know this!!)
6) Carefully remove the Chain Bath, holding it level, and dump the remainder of the solution into an environmentally correct disposal container. Note that "LIMagna" (Charlie) has proposed a modification that may simplify this step with a removable plug drain. See "Chain Bath" thread.
You may be surprised at the amount of residue in the bottom of the chain bath. Even with a "clean" chain, the paint thinner will get a bit more grit off into the solution. If done often enough, the solution may be adequate to clean and lubricate in one step.
The paint thinner will evaporate in an hour or two, leaving a wax film on all the critical surfaces, including the pin/roller surfaces if you use a non O-ring chain.
Now for my last hypothesis:
If you perform this routine every 500 to 1000 miles, depending on conditions you ride in, you can get almost as much life from a plain chain as an O-ring chain. Given that the plain chains sell for 25-40% of the price of O-ring chains, this is an economic choice. (Note that one package of wax and one gallon of paint thinner will lubricate your chain a large number of times.)
I will be testing this hypothesis on both my Magnas in the coming months/years. I am keeping careful records. I will report back when I next need to change a chain. Don't hold your breath!
Now, I know that this method is not practical if you are touring Europe or riding to Alaska. Carry a good wax spray lubricant and rags with you, and be very careful to get every single joint lubed at both ends when you do it. -- and use the immersion method when you get home.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Leave it to an Engineer to make something simple 5 pages long :lol: :lol: :lol: great write up Lawrence Thanks.. :cool: :cool:
Quote from: roboto65 on October 31, 2010, 11:18:43 PM
Leave it to an Engineer to make something simple 5 pages long :lol: :lol: :lol: great write up Lawrence Thanks.. :cool: :cool:
That's what I was thinking! :P Good write up Lawrence.
Very thorough job Lawrence! I haven't had a chance to get back to my brush attachment mod to your chain bath design but plan to this coming weekend (got caught up with replacing the tires on the wife's Rebel ... she's just learning to ride). I'm thinking that I may not need to attach the brush to anything if I can simply hold it in place with my hand and I think I can do that through the slot in the top of the PVC tube. You have to do that anyway when you use that brush sans your chain bath so I don't think it should be a problem but I'll have to see if things fit first. Thanks again for the engineers view of chain wear ... it was a very interesting read.
Awesome informationa and work put into it!
So I have question.. Will the paint thinner potentially work on the o-ring chains??? So I guess my real question would be, for those whom have x-ring/o-ring chains, what would you use to clean them in your system?
With the questions out of the way, I can remember as a kid on my motorcross bikes, we would manually clean the chain and soak it in a bucket of oil, then hang to drip dry. Swapped out chains every few weeks. Helped with chain longevity.
Greg, according to my chemist son, the paint thinner should not attack the O-rings. I have several O-rings, and some used O-ring chain that I have yet to discard. I will cut off a few lengths and soak them in it for a day or so, and get back to you.
I have completed testing of the paint thinner-wax mixture on O-rings. They are undamaged after soaking and drying out twice. Soaked overnight. Given that immersion using the procedure recommended above is only for a minute or so, there is no danger that the paint thinner will damage O-rings.
When I disassembled a link (two pins) to retrieve the O-rings for the test, I observed some things about chain wear. I hope you can see from the attached picture. ( A new link from a non O-ring chain is shown on the left for comparison.)
1) The lubricant on the pins was pretty much dried out and non-flexible. (Notice the dark coloring on the old pins.)
2) One of the O-rings had striations ("grooves") in it from a bit of grit that got behind it. (It is the one still in place on the link in the picture.)
3) The wear on the pins is concentrated under the link pieces. (You can see the worn portions near the ends of the pins.) This makes sense when I think about it, since the tube that constitutes the roller cannot be stiff enough to spread the force across the entire pin. In addition, this area, being closest to the outside edge of the pin/roller, is the first to be invaded with grit.
I feel confident that the folks that manufacture roller chain are well aware of all the above observations. Roller chain has been manufactured for over 100 years.
[attachment deleted by admin]
The photos are so much nicer with your new camera. (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/TLRam1/Smilies/thumbs_up.gif)
I always thought if you could really pack the innards with a good grease the chain would last longer and stretch less. I have taken a part a few and seen what you have witnessed.
As a matter of fact I am working on chains tonight!
Could any of the dark coloring be from the heat due to grinding off part of the pin?
I would need to perform some elaborate testing to determine metal content to know for sure, Terry. Your point is well taken, though. The metal that is ground off has to go somewhere!
Lawrence.. Thanx for bringing this set up to MootMag.. It worked great!!!
can you pm me the dmeinsions so i can make one please. about how much wax do you dissolve? thanks
Quote from: Jamtndll on June 20, 2011, 08:22:44 PM
can you pm me the dmeinsions so i can make one please. about how much wax do you dissolve? thanks
Lawrence told me you keep adding wax until it stops dissolving.. (until the paint thinner is saturated).
The Paint Thinner will dissolve the wax over time, but once it is saturated the remaining wax will stay in small chunks, which doesn't hurt anything..
Quote from: Jamtndll on June 20, 2011, 08:22:44 PM
can you pm me the dmeinsions so i can make one please. about how much wax do you dissolve? thanks
No need for privacy here, Jim, as the entire thread with dimensions, etc. can be found at:
http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=4618.0
Perhaps the width of the slot is missing. I made mine one inch wide. Cut it with a table saw. Wanted just enough to clear the chain, and no more, less the fluid capacity of the device is diminished.
I saw the stuff that came out of Lawrences chain at MOOTMag pretty impressive :cool: :cool: