Here's a couple of articles I've run across recently that discuss Oils both petroleum based and synthetic. Thought it might be interesting reading for some.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Have fun with them but remember YMMV.
Marc
Before I switched a former car of mine from organic to synthetic oil, a trusted mechanic friend told me to pour a small bottle of transmission fluid into the oil and run the car for no more than a 50 miles, then change the oil.
The purpose was the transmission fluid's higher detergent make up will "strip" the oil from the interior engine parts - hence the "no more than 50 miles" warning. Then, when the organic is drained and the synthetic added. the engine has much less organic residue with which to potentially coagulate.
Have any of you heard something similar to this?
If so, do any of you do anything to "strip" the organic oil from your bike motor prior to switching to synthetic?
Yeah, I've heard that. I have a friend who manages an oil change shop and he gives similar advice. He recommends toping off your oil with tranny fluid a day before you plan on changing the oil (as long as the car is not WAY low on oil). He says that tranny fluid has lots of detergent like qualities and does a good job cleaning the engine out and does no harm. Not very scientific, so who knows.
Why use Transmission Oil for something it's not designed for? And what about the stuff that remains behind after the oil change?
There are several products specificly made for cleaning out oil deposits. I use B-12 ChemTool in the (car) engine before changing the oil. It's alcohol/distallet based, and what you don't get out during the oil I change is supposed to evaporate off relativly quickly.
I used to use Gunk Motor Flush (http://www.gunk.com/motorflush_cat.asp), but since it was petrolium based I was concerned about how much of the detergent remained behind in the engine after a change.
If you pour in transmission fluid and destroy your engine, it comes out of your pocket. If you use a cleaner specificly made to clean your engine and something goes wrong, you can sue the company that promised "no harm."
I'm with you Wayne, I ain't puttin any tranny fluid anywhere it doesn't belong. Besides, why make comparisons with automobile motors since that doesn't take into account the wet clutch issue.
I'm of the opinion that with these Honda bikes, I can NEGLECT my bike to death and still do less harm than some of these magical "fixes" that are supposed to "preserve and enhance". You know, sometimes less is more.
Curtis
I was curious about this seeing as some folks believe that Tranny fluid is a sort of panacea (use it in your gas tank, oil etc.) for all that ails ya.
Have a friend that's a master Harley mechanic (no ragging please!!!!). He tells me that they regularly dump a pint or so in the oil to clean it up in preparation for fresh organic or synthetic. I asked him about metal to metal contact cause it would seem that adding this fluid would lessen the very properties you absolutely need to keep your engine from seizing up...He stated that they dump it in and run em for the equivilent of 10-15 miles then dump the residue and add fresh. His take is that, especially for units not regularly maintained, it gets rid of the majority of deposits that build up or sit in the pan and that they've never had any problems doing this.
FYI.
MArc.
They've never had any problem....maybe now we know why Harley's break down more! In all seriousness, 10-15 miles of 'equivalent' (probably idle time) is a lot less stress than a days daily driving with the stuff. But still:
1. Where did they get the idea to do this? Does Harley recommend it? I'd love to see that in writing. I'd definitly like to know the effect on my warrantee before it was done.
2. Why do they think it worked? Unless they open up the engine, look for deposits, close up the engine (putting in new oil and trans fluid), then run it and check again, how do they know it removed deposits?
3. If it did do the above test--how do you know it was any better than just flushing with new, clean oil that has no suspended deposits in it? Motor oil also has detergents built in, but much like sugar into cold ice tea, it can only hold so much.
4. Much like the ethanol and bio-diesel people found out, seals are designed for certain fluids. Changing fluids didn't destroy seals immediately, but over time, it was leaks, problems, and replacement. (The automotive industry did re-engineer seals as a result in flex-fuel vehicles).
5. Let's say it did work a little. But lets say it's not as good at lubricating as regular oil—a very safe assumption or all oil manufacturers would already be including it. Therefore, it caused your engine to wear a little more; maybe 5% more than normal, and you get this extra wear every time you do it. Is the trade-off (a little extra cleaning in exchange for a little sooner breakdown) worth it to you, especially when there are products designed to clean out oil deposits without causing harm? (everyone has to answer that on their own).
I've just seen no science or testing, and no motor company, advertise adding transmission fluid to oil. Kerosene works well, too, and I've also heard about putting acetone in your tank. Lots of people still swear by it, but if you search online, major auto manufactures and many mechanics say no.
Pro: http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive#Most_Miles_Documented
Con: http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=98268&ran=66469
(you can google others; that's where I got these)
Everyone has to make up their own mind on it; that's why I keep saying there's more old wives tales and folk stories in oil than there is hard science.
Here's some more information on this subject from the venerable SAB/MAG list. Seems the popular consesus is not to do it for reasons that seem to me to be perfectly valid and certainly fall into line with Wayne's posting.
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"ANYhow; what you're really talking about is using a high detergent thin oil as a solvent. Some of us have used MMO, diesel, kerosene, mineral oil or even Berrymans' to do the same thing. Let's say you use a pint of ATF- that means now your crankcase is @ 12% ATF. Since your bike is designed to use a combo of oil viscosity and pressure for lubrication and the prevention of metal to metal contact, you've decreased the viscosity and therefore the pressure, with a minor increase in volume flow. This is not so much a problem with ATF; but can you see the possible results of using a can of Berryman's this way? There's always maybe a half pint of fluid left at the oil change, so to be absolutely sure you'll need to do two changes. Oil and filters.
*THAT* said: I myself use MMO, actually. MAYbe a half pint, tho. And I figure what little is left is probably good for the engine anyhow, so I don't worry about it. You've heard all the big bad stories of what solvents do to the seals and soft parts in your carbs? They do the same thing everywhere else, too. And at @ 170 degrees and warmer in the engine oil, probably a lot more thoroughly. ATF and MMO, in small quantities, won't hurt anything. And since I don't seem to own anything with less than 100k miles, I use a little MMO in my fuel, too. Can't hurt.
*THAT* said, you've done some research into this matter, right? You do know that it's illegal to sell motor oil and fuel that is in any way incompatible with any other motor oil and fuel? You can mix a pint of every oil brand on the market in a great big bucket, and it won't separate, turn into sludge, spontaneously ignite or cause birth defects in your neighbors' cows. You can use this in any vehicle without any worries. Any body who tells you different has slow old stock on his shelf he needs to get rid of. You can use any brand or type of automotive oil after any other brand or type, and nothing bad can or will happen. Since you're already using one of the better oils to begin with, you can just upgrade to Rotella Synth and sleep peacefully.
*THAT* said, you do know that the word "synthetic", when used for motor oil, is just a marketing term? Like the words "natural", "conservative", "diet" and "light" for other products, the word "synthetic" on a bottle of oil actually means less than the word "improved" does. NADA! The word "synthetic" as a true definition for oil was lost in a lawsuit; bigger money won over big money. I may be wrong, but I think I remember that Redline and Amsoil are among the very few available true synthetic oils; everybody else is either a blend or "our guys tell us this is almost just as sorta good as the real thing, if you look at it just this way" re refined oil.
I expect to be corrected on a few minor issues shortly. Still, the only things you really need to go from Rotella T to Rotella Synth is a wrench, a drain pan and a gallon bottle of oil. And a filter. Unless you've been running 30,000 between oil changes, using the non detergent oil in the back of the dollar store, you just don't need to do anything else."
And Just a little more:
"More years ago that I care to count, I ran a Union 76 gas station. My pump jockey bought a low mileage junkyard engine to put in his pickup
truck. We did the swap in the station garage bay one night. It
cranked right up and ran like a top. We went home.
Next day he brings it in, smoking and knocking. "What happened?".
'Oh, I dumped some ATF in the oil to break all that sh*t loose in the
bottom of the oil pan before I change the oil.' "Ya know, I prefer
that sh*t to stay right there in the bottom of the pan and leave me
alone." From that day forward, the engine smoked and had a slight bottom end knock. So much for flushing.
What's in that gunk that's solidified in the bottom of the pan? Metal
shavings from bearing wear, chunks of carbon, who knows what else.
Would you like it to stay solidified in your oil pan, or would you
rather get it sucked into the oil pump and circulated around your cams
for a while before you shut it down and let it solidify back in the bottom of the oil pan while you change your oil?
Let sleeping dogs lie."
If there is any question about the condition of the inside of your engine it's not that hard to pull the oil pan and check it. What doesn't get caught in the filter ,because of gravity will end up in the bottom. When you do your next oil change pull your oil pan If it's clean keep doing what your doing. If it's dirty clean it several times over the next few hundred miles and see if it doesn't get better. If there is any doubt about what you find you can always have your oil analyzed. Just my two cents worth.
I have been using BG SHEAR POWER but seem to cause trans and clutch problems so a freind gave me some Honda HTP to try anyone used it in a 83 V45?
Charles,
Where does one get their oil tested? How much does such a thing cost anyway. What would one be looking for?
I am just curious.
Thanks.[/quote]
check out this site.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm