I've got a 3rd gen.. The front is diving badly to the point that taking a corner at an intersection is getting scary. I'm assuming I need to change the front fork oil. The seals are are good. I don't have oil on my forks.
Click for Video in new window
(http://www.guywheatley.com/photos/FrontForks.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVYXCDxmBiA&feature=youtu.be)
I thought about progressive springs, but decided I'd rather spend the money on something else. I'm mot going to be tearing up the Tail of the Dragon, I just need to get back to stock performance.
I found a section on Tips and Tricks about replacing the stock springs with progressives, but that didn't focus on changing the oil. I was also hoping for some photos, or better yet video, of the procedure.
What all needs to be replaced while I'm doing this. Seals? Other internal parts?
Any suggestions, or better yet photos and/or videos, will be much appreciated.
Guy,
You can cut longer spacers to stiffen up your stock springs a little and go to a heavier weight oil, such as 15 instead of 10 wgt.
You will have to lift your front end off the ground, remove the front wheel and the fork drain screws will be up in your fork above where the axle goes through your bottom fork leg. Once you drain your fluid you will pump by hand each fork leg to remove any fluid left in the fork.
If you have a 94, maybe 95 also, the drain screws will be on the rear of the fork leg just above the axles.
Guy, I don't go nuts in curves either (at least not since my little unscheduled get-off about three years ago. :smile: :smile:). In my opinion, the soft springs in the stock design are its weakest feature. Nothing I have done to the bike increased its handling to compare with installing Progressive springs.
That said, I presume you have access to the Magna repair manual? It tells the procedure pretty well. The only caveat is in measuring the oil level. The manuals don't make it clear, but they refer to the amount of air between the oil level and the top of the strut -- not the level of oil measured from the bottom, through the spring. Hence a lower number is more oil, not less. In measuring this distance, one has to decide where to place the tape, ruler, whatever, as the tubes are not vertical if on the bike. So if you measure at the front of the tube, you get one number, at the back a smaller one.
What I have done is use a ruler that is almost the diameter of the tube, and insert it so that the surface of the ruler is parallel to the front axle (if it was on the bike, which it won't be for this procedure), in other words, across the fork, parallel to the long direction of the front of the triple tree. This gives me a reading that is the average of the front and back. I am sure there are other ways to do this, and I am not certain how much difference it would make in the final result, but it works for me.
It seems highly unlikely to me that your springs have fatigued or sagged, but I suppose it is possible. If the oil seems OK (not dark colored or full of sediment) and the seals are smooth and not cracked, and the spacers have not collapsed, then tired springs seems the only other theory I can offer. If you are still set on staying stock, and need replacement stock springs, I believe I still have a pair that are yours for the shipping cost.
Thanks for the input guys. Terry, I do have a 94, and the oil drain is right where you said it would be.
(http://www.guywheatley.com/photos/ForkOilDrain.JPG)
I also remember Charles using longer spacers in his. I think I'll replace the oil with 15 wt and bump the spacers up about 1/4 inch.
We'll see what that does.
Again guys, thanks for the advice.
I am having the same problem after changing my fork oil and seals. Was leaking out of the bottom tightened bolts to stop leak. What are you guys using to measure your fork oil. I plan to drain oil and remeasure again this weekend. I want to be exact this time.
Ingramml...
I use a container that has metric measurements, just need something similar or convert it to US measurements. The 1st gens use a certain amount of fluid in each fork, the difference is that one fork has the TRAC sytem. Progressive springs and going to 15 wt. oil also helped my '85 V65. Also you might check the air pressure in the forks, think it is 0 - 6 psi, a hand pump works great for this so you don't blow out the seals.
Quote from: silveradocowboy on February 21, 2012, 04:27:36 PM
Also you might check the air pressure in the forks, think it is 0 - 6 psi, a hand pump works great for this so you don't blow out the seals.
Jeff, now you have me confused. On my '96, I don't see a way to inject air into the assembly. Don't see anything in the manual about adding air. Of course, I assemble the whole thing with no weight on the bike, so when it compresses, there will be air pressure in the tube. I suppose I could measure the compression and calculate the pressure, but why?
Is this air injection unique to 1st gen bikes?
Lawrence,
The added air pressure does not pertain to the 3rd Gen bikes.
I got snowed into some Honda suspension oil that is red. I got it form the local Honda store. I let out all the air and it still rides unbalanced. I have wondered if putting my tire on different from the way I originally had it on would effect it.
How can you put the tire on differently.
Just a couple of notes here. When I was researching fork oil a few years ago I found out that the fork oil weights are not standardized as they are for motor/gear oil. Different manufacturers could conceivably label a fork oil that has the same viscosity range as a 10w for one and a 15W for another. At the time I found a table that listed the viscosity ranges for different fork oils that I used to ensure I got what I wanted. Not sure if this is still true or not, but might want to research.
Also, for fork oil level what I found that worked well was a syringe-like thing that was made for measuring 2-cycle oil. I filled the fork tubes a bit over, I measured the syringe for the proper oil level, marked the syringe, then inserted the syringe into the middle of the fork and just pulled out the fork oil until it was pulling air. This worked better for me then any of the create-a-dipstick methods.
BTW, I found the syringe at Walmart.
I have looked and I have gotten different amounts of oil for my magna. I have been told by the same honda store 18.4 and 18.9 ounces right and left respectively as well as 12 and 12.5. Does anyone know for sure or have the official manual (clyme has 18.9 and 18.4 ) for the 86 v45 to tell me exactly how much oil goes in each fork. I am going go call again today but I don't have a lot of faith in them.
If I were to get into it, I would put in Progressive units, hands down!!! Remember springs of any brand do sag etc over the years.
One of the top 3 must have upgrades for a 3rd gen Magna!!!!!
My bike had the same problem as yours. Mine would dip when ever I used the front brake no matter how lightly I would use them. If I came to a stop sign or light. It seemed like my forks were going to bottom out. So I changed out the springs and replaced them with Progressive. The change was like night and day. Springs over time will loss thier tension stength. So I would imagine your springs have become soft.
Quote from: guywheatley on February 21, 2012, 11:10:37 AM
Thanks for the input guys. Terry, I do have a 94, and the oil drain is right where you said it would be.
(http://www.guywheatley.com/photos/ForkOilDrain.JPG)
I also remember Charles using longer spacers in his. I think I'll replace the oil with 15 wt and bump the spacers up about 1/4 inch.
We'll see what that does.
Again guys, thanks for the advice.
Good deal Guy, when I bought my 01 Magna I switch my 94 forks over partly because of the easy access to the fork drain bolts.
Ordered Progressive Springs this morning.
Click for blog. (http://www.texarkanagazette.com/Bikers-Blog/2012/02/23/making-progress/)
(http://www.texarkanagazette.com/Bikers-Blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/progressive-springs.jpg) (http://www.texarkanagazette.com/Bikers-Blog/2012/02/23/making-progress/)
Click for blog. (http://www.texarkanagazette.com/Bikers-Blog/2012/02/23/making-progress/)
Where did you get them, and if I may ask... What did you pay..
Hoot:
I got them from a local place in Texarkana called Cycle Zone. I paid $92.50. I called the local Honda dealer and got the same price.
They're under $60 at PhatPerformanceParts.com:
http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/Progressive_Suspension_Progressive_Rate_Fork_Sprin_p/prog-fork.htm (http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/Progressive_Suspension_Progressive_Rate_Fork_Sprin_p/prog-fork.htm)
Even with shipping they're about $71 ... $20 less than list and no tax outside of CA.
So now you tell him...
In any case, by the time the springs could arrive from California, Guy will be on down the road with his installed. :smile: :smile:
There's always a trade off Lawrence but that assumes you can just walk into your local dealer and walk out with them and that they don't also have to order them from somewhere.
OK, the important thing here is that the missus NEVER finds out I could have gotten them $20 cheaper. :shock:
Cycle Zone had to order them, but they came in the next day. (Today) My plan is to put them on this weekend. I'm also putting rear brake pads on the Valkyrie. I started that last night and managed to turn that into an adventure too. :-?
I'll probably blog about it next week, so I'll spare you the silly details here.
I finally got my front end fixed as well. My bushing wasn't going all the way into the seal. For those of us who are two cheap to buy a seal piston. used a piece of exhaust pipe to drive the seals into place.
PVC! IT is a great seal driver! Easily found!
Exactly ... and you can slap one of these together for only a few bucks:
Good to know.. I think one of the seals on the red bike is weeping just a little, and the dust seals are cracking a little
Finally got around to replacing the fork oil and changing to Progressive springs.
I was surprised to see how much longer the stock spacers were than the ones I cut for the progressive springs.
(http://www.guywheatley.com/photos/Forks01.JPG)
Then I checked the length of the progressive springs compared to the stocks ones. No wonder the new spacers were so much shorter.
(http://www.guywheatley.com/photos/Forks02.jpg)
With the forks compressed to add oil, the front end sets low. Looks strange.
(http://www.guywheatley.com/photos/Forks03.JPG)
It's wonderful now, but I can't really compare the progressive shocks with the OEM ones. For some reason, the front end had started diving badly. I guess the old oil wasn't doing much good. There was no leak, and I removed a good amount of old oil. I didn't measure it, but it sure looks to be about the same amount I put back in.
In any case, what ever the problem was, it's gone now.
The only ill effect I have observed with my installation of Progressive springs is that the stability provided by rake and trail is reduced. When I cross the center line bump after passing a slower vehicle, for example, the steering response is slightly under-damped -- meaning that it "woggles" back and forth about two to three cycles before settling to straight ahead. This was a surprising and slightly unsettling result. It probably depends on tire pressure, too. I run about 35-37 psi in the front tire. It happens on both bikes, so it is not a function of the different rear tires.
When going straight over a bump, the front end seems to be about right meaning there is no perceptible overshoot, so heavier fork oil is probably not a fix.
Has anyone else noticed this anomaly?