Magna Owners Of Texas

Public Forums => The Garage => Topic started by: tedkraus on May 28, 2012, 11:36:25 AM

Title: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on May 28, 2012, 11:36:25 AM
Hi everyone. So I road my new bike the 05 Suzuki vstrom 600 miles away for memorial day weekend.... Laramie Wy- Omaha Nebraska. Bike has been performing well, but last night it rained and the bike woulndt start... so I took the battery to advance auto since they charge batteries free. And they said it was dead...and would charge it 5 amps for 1 hr. Per the 12bs battery.  I looked for bare or exposed connections couldn't find any.. just wondering if this ever happened to anyone before..
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on May 28, 2012, 12:34:21 PM
So I charged the battery 5amps for one hour and the bike is still dead. Im stuck and have work tomorrow need advise.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: TLRam1 on May 28, 2012, 01:09:17 PM
You are saying no replacement to be found? Do you know anyone with a bike you can borrow their battery, can you put your battery in and jump off from another source than take off home.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: lragan on May 28, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
I have push started my 3rd gen when the battery was dead.  As long as you don't shut it off, you should be able to make it home.  Or if you must shut it off (like to buy gas!!), park it where it is easy to push.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: TLRam1 on May 28, 2012, 01:11:17 PM
If your charging system is up to par almost any 12 volt battery would work that you can connect for the trip home.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Magnum Magna on May 28, 2012, 03:44:09 PM
You did check the fuses. 
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on May 29, 2012, 09:39:25 AM
So made it home...So here is the story checked the battery after it was charged 12.5 volts, went back to my friends place put it in bike is completely dead. Checked fuses wires etc.  Checked battery voltage again 6 volts... Ten minutes prior the battery was fully charged... So we tracked down a open auto parts store with a battery pre-charged. A "Magna Brand Battery", dropped it in bike fired up and I road the 600 miles home.  I was just so puzzled I still have no idea why the first one so suddenly went out? Have you guys had batteries seem perfect one day and dead the next? Never had this problem before, usually batteries slowly get weak for me. With my experience with my Subaru, both Magna's I owned, and my fiances car.  

EDIT: I forgot to add, I was able to push start the third gen magna before without issue, but I could not get the suzuki to push start for the life of me, I even tried to push start it down a small incline...  
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Lurkin on May 29, 2012, 09:45:19 AM
Since moving to Texas 20 years ago, ALL my batteries fail this way.  Real PITA.  Only warning I've gotten is that "sometimes" I get a slow starter sound once before it's gone, and when it's gone, it's toally gone.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on May 29, 2012, 10:43:39 AM
Interesting, possibly the heat from riding 600 miles in 95F and hotter on the interstate cooked the battery??? No slow starter, just a completely dead battery the next morning... I was worried the rain had caused a short on the bike,  since that had happened to my friends Harley where a rubber wire coating had rubbed off.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Magnum Magna on May 29, 2012, 03:44:00 PM
Yes. Everything is great come out of the bank bike would not start.
Push started went to a bike parts place. In Texas three years and you are on borrowed time.
Magna has a big plus it is easy to push start then most big bikes.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: John Luttrell on May 29, 2012, 04:38:34 PM
Quote from: Lurkin on May 29, 2012, 09:45:19 AM
Since moving to Texas 20 years ago, ALL my batteries fail this way.  Real PITA.  Only warning I've gotten is that "sometimes" I get a slow starter sound once before it's gone, and when it's gone, it's toally gone.

Same for me, all my bike batteries seem to almost never give any warning before dieing.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on May 30, 2012, 11:24:52 AM
Fine for a few days now. So I think the battery died catastrophically like you all described. Thanks again for all the great input!
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Lurkin on May 30, 2012, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: John Luttrell on May 29, 2012, 04:38:34 PM
Quote from: Lurkin on May 29, 2012, 09:45:19 AM
Since moving to Texas 20 years ago, ALL my batteries fail this way.  Real PITA.  Only warning I've gotten is that "sometimes" I get a slow starter sound once before it's gone, and when it's gone, it's toally gone.

Same for me, all my bike batteries seem to almost never give any warning before dieing.

Just to be clear that is all bike and auto batteries.   :sad:
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: lragan on May 30, 2012, 04:09:44 PM
Unless you install a voltmeter, I don't know how one would anticipate battery failure, even if it were "gradual".  By far the most stress on the battery is in starting, so I would expect it to eventually fail to start the bike.  Even though this appears sudden and catastrophic, I suspect if we had better monitoring, we would see that is not the case.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Imabass on May 30, 2012, 07:18:02 PM
sounds like it had 2 dead cells. It happens and common after 3 years on a decent battery or 3 months if it is Wal-Mart battery.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Jerry G Turner on May 30, 2012, 08:09:45 PM
I have a walmart battery in my magna little over two years now still working good .
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: hootmon on May 30, 2012, 08:21:21 PM
Motobatt from Amazon in wife's Sabre.. couple years... Still good...
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Magnum Magna on May 30, 2012, 10:58:40 PM
I now have a voltmeter so I am always looking for anything out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on May 31, 2012, 12:16:06 AM
The new battery from Advance Auto Parts is a Magna Brand, the clerk "highly recommended", most important though it was pre-charged and had 12.5 volts, and 335 cold cranking amps when checked. It also came with a 12 Month unconditional warranty. So I am looking forward to not having it fail until the 13 month on the first day. 
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: Lurkin on May 31, 2012, 07:21:05 AM
Quote from: lragan on May 30, 2012, 04:09:44 PM
Unless you install a voltmeter, I don't know how one would anticipate battery failure, even if it were "gradual".  By far the most stress on the battery is in starting, so I would expect it to eventually fail to start the bike.  Even though this appears sudden and catastrophic, I suspect if we had better monitoring, we would see that is not the case.

It's not clear to me how a voltmeter will predict a bad battery?  When running, a healthy charging system will show normal voltages even with a bad battery.  Most of the "bad" batteries that I have measured have been capable of showing 12-13v, but have no amps behind it.  Am I missing something (...related to this thread anyway  :P )
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: lragan on May 31, 2012, 01:33:38 PM
Quote from: Lurkin on May 31, 2012, 07:21:05 AM

It's not clear to me how a voltmeter will predict a bad battery?  When running, a healthy charging system will show normal voltages even with a bad battery.  Most of the "bad" batteries that I have measured have been capable of showing 12-13v, but have no amps behind it.  Am I missing something (...related to this thread anyway  :P )

There are two primary failure mechanisms for the cells in a battery --

1) Low impedance (nearly a short) caused by collection of conductive debris between the plates.  Usually from solids that collect in the bottom of the battery.  In this case, the charge voltage will not reach the 14-15 volts that a healthy battery will show when the charging system is in its specified output RPM range (above about 3000 rpm in a 3rd gen Magna).  The current limit of the charging system will be reached at lower voltages.  The battery can overheat and boil over in this case.

2) High impedance (approaching an open) -- caused by plate erosion or bad connections.  In this case, the voltmeter will show 15-18V while charging, and the voltage when not charging will sag below 12V -- to 11V or even 10V. 

Of course, there can be a sudden change to either condition, usually caused by a hard jolt, but if the objective is to catch gradual degradation before the battery fails to start the bike, a voltmeter is the simplest game in town.

I guarantee that a bad battery will not show 12-13V when placed under load -- as when you try to start the bike.  The voltage will sag to something much lower.

Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: hootmon on May 31, 2012, 01:56:25 PM
I know about the solids on a wet cell battery, but is that possible in a gel battery? Just wondering..
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: lragan on May 31, 2012, 02:58:10 PM
Possible?  I don't know, probably possible, but not nearly as likely. 

I don't have a lot of experience with gel cells, but the only ones I have used have eventually developed a high impedance, so the battery slowly seems weaker and weaker.  Kids' riding toys typically are powered by gel cells, as they are safer.

The MC battery I have in the red bike now is a gel cell.  I suppose time will tell.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: ggeezer on June 01, 2012, 03:35:54 AM
Batteries can be a real pain. I've had instances where all was normal in the morning and you go out in the afternoon and the battery is dead... of course, it's a week after the guarantee has expired.
The worst case scenario was my wife's new Mustang GT. Every once in a while it would not start. I take a voltmeter to the battery and it's dead. Since it was still under Ford Road-side-assistance, we had it towed to the dealer three times. At the dealership, it would start normally... they can find nothing wrong and consider you an idiot. After the third time, I forced them to change the battery and everything has been OK since. I suspect the battery developed an open circuit somehow and the jiggling of being towed would fix the problem temporarily.

All this begs the question:
The maintenance-free battery in my Honda VTX 1800 is 10 years old and still works great  but when is it going to fail? Probably at the worst time. The dilemma is "should I change a perfectly good battery just because it's old or be a cheapskate and wait until it fails"?

Orv.
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: roboto65 on June 01, 2012, 05:49:31 AM
Me I vote for cheapskate LOL mine do not get changed till they die  :lol:
Title: Re: rain kills battery???
Post by: tedkraus on June 11, 2012, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: roboto65 on June 01, 2012, 05:49:31 AM
Me I vote for cheapskate LOL mine do not get changed till they die  :lol:

I guess I vote for the cheap way also... Just hope it doesn't die when there is no cell service in the middle of nowhere...

What I have done in the past if it shows signs of death I would change it. My car battery was really weak, I could tell slow cranking and hard to start when cold, I charged it up on my variable charger. While I saved up for a week or so for a new battery... When I returned the core to the auto parts shop they could not believe my car was still starting on the old one when they checked the voltage and CCA.