I have several bikes inoperative, on one when I drained the carburetor this is what came out so I took the opportunity to see what Star Tron and Sea Foam would do with what looks to be moisture in the gas.
Prior to MOOT Mag #10
Overnight with a dose of Star Tron, as you can see, nothing changed. This is what it looked like before and after.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr80/MOOT-Photos/DSCN0031.jpg)
Added Sea Foam prior to MOOT Mag 10 and this is what it looked like after I came
back. Water is still in the gas.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr80/MOOT-Photos/DSCN0035.jpg)
I was expecting the water to dissipate, how well can this help moisture in the fuel system.
I've tried a product called K100 in my boat. It is suppose to disapate any water in the fuel system It is suppose to break the water down to small paritacles so they will burn. I could see some water in my Racor filter before I put the K100 in the fuel. I took the boat out for an over night trip. When I got back I looked at the Racor once again and did not see any water in it.
Terry, water is heavier than gasoline, so it stays on the bottom of the tank, container, whatever. It cannot evaporate until the fuel does.
Seafoam and most other additives are basically detergents formulated to burn. They can remove "lacquer" from evaporating gasoline by dissolving them in the fuel, so they can burn in the engine. Used to excess, they can also dissolve the oil in cylinders, so it is important that we don't use way too much, especially in two - stroke engines. (Don't ask me how I know this!!).
In the farm country where I grew up, we would add ethanol to gasoline tanks that had been sitting over a period of months. It will combine with ("absorb") the water to allow it to mix with the gasoline and "burn". (Of course, everyone knows that water doesn't actually burn, but the water vapor in the air-fuel mixture adds mass to the flow, increasing power or efficiency. This is why you get better mileage driving in the rain. We had a 1938 John Deere Model D tractor that had a "water carburetor" -- it took water from the cooling system and mixed it with kerosene from the tank to power the two cylinder engine. One could never start the engine with this mixture, so there was a small tank that had gasoline in it. Once you got the engine running -- a feat in itself, I might add, since you hand cranked the beast by grabbing the flywheel and turning it -- we would change a valve and switch to the kerosene-water mixture.)
Aircraft have petcocks in the lowest part of the tank to drain off water -- standard pre-flight procedure.
Anyway, if you want to remove water, try alcohol. The only safe use of the stuff in motoring...
Lawrence,
On Sea Foam it states, removes moisture from Fuel Tanks, that statement makes you think if you poured Sea Foam in your fuel tank the water would dissipate.
What does gas additives do?
1. Stabilize
2. Remove varnish, as others have reported, though I have never had this work for me. I always have to pull the carbs for a proper cleaning and I think that is the best route to go.
I need to look up research to see what additives actually do and their limits.
Perhaps Sea Foam has a little ethanol in it, in which case it could dissolve some water. If I interpret what I see in your photos, it will take a lot of ethanol -- which, as you know, is quite volatile, so if left out to breathe, might have very little effect.
I guess I don't really know what "Stabilize" means in this context. Does it reduce volatility? If so, it would make it harder to vaporize, which doesn't seem helpful to me.
As for removing varnish, I am not sure how effective any of these additives are in that respect. For sure, if the relevant jets are already clogged, so the mixture cannot flow through them, then varnish removal won't really take place.
I have used Seafoam in a bike that has some low speed range issues, and after riding a bit, they seemed to clear up. Whether the same would have happened without the Seafoam, who knows?
Much of what we believe about these products are the result of anecdotal experience, not carefully conducted experiments. Given the minimal cost of the products, this is not likely to change.
Related to this discussion, the various gasoline companies all seem to have different additives that they tout loudly. I have watched a single gasoline truck pull up, in succession, to different brands' stations, fill the underground tanks, and leave. I have also witnessed an attendant add less than a quart of some magic additive to this huge tank of gasoline, and tell me, when I asked, that it was "superstuff" or whatever their particular marketing BS called it. Hard to imagine an additive so powerful that a thimbleful per fill up would make a difference...
Might be going beyond what you were trying to convey, but you could use some Heet (or somesuch) to handle water in the fuel.
One of the suppliers came by and I showed this to him, his take is this could be a gel and not have the properties of water. I will start with fresh gas, add water than add the additives to see what happens.
Started a New Batch with new gas and fresh water, the water is hard to detect with fresh gas but is right in the middle of the gas.
Up first I will add Star Tron.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr80/MOOT-Photos/TLRam1/DSCN0050.jpg)
Quote from: TLRam1 on June 21, 2012, 01:08:25 PM
Started a New Batch with new gas and fresh water, the water is hard to detect with fresh gas but is right in the middle of the gas.
Up first I will add Star Tron.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr80/MOOT-Photos/TLRam1/DSCN0050.jpg)
Nothing changed with Star Tron, and again nothing changed when Sea Foam was added. As Lawrence mention I also added alcohol, all I had was Isopropyl and again no changes.
Quote from: lragan on June 20, 2012, 04:17:11 PM
I guess I don't really know what "Stabilize" means in this context.
As in the tank, keeps the fuel fresher longer.
Don't forget that every time you use ethanol gas you are putting water into your tank. The manufacturers cut the alcohol in ethanol with water. If you can find a station that has "pure gas" I'm thinking there will be a lot less water in your fuel.
I purchased Berryman's and gave it a try over the weekend with the same results, so anything to do with moisture claims are out the window.
The amount gas & water used was not unlike what you would have in your carburetors, what I added of the additives was more than the water which is far more than you would otherwise.
Lawrence, since I am on this is there another type of alcohol I can easily obtain that I can try.
Right now the only way I see to get water out of your carbs is by removal or draining.
Quote from: silveradocowboy on July 01, 2012, 11:02:42 AM
Don't forget that every time you use ethanol gas you are putting water into your tank. The manufacturers cut the alcohol in ethanol with water. If you can find a station that has "pure gas" I'm thinking there will be a lot less water in your fuel.
You can't be serious!! -- but of course you are, and you are inevitably right! I did not know this -- what a crock!! Defeats the only real advantage to ethanol, in my view.
Terry, if you can buy Everclear, I think it comes in two strengths. Buy the "190 proof" --which is about as pure as one can get at a rational price. Pure ethanol will absorb water from the air until it reaches about 96% ethanol. 95% ("190 proof") ethanol will absorb water from your gas tank for sure. A 10% ethanol-90% gasoline mixture can absorb, at 60 degrees F, about 3.8 teaspoons of water per gallon. More water than this will separate. Water in solution is harmless to your engine.
More ethanol will absorb more water. It is proportional, so a 20%-80% mixture will absorb 7.6 teaspoons, etc.
Greg should be able to give guidance to ethanol limits in engine fuel. I understand racing fuels have very high percentages, but I don't know the other components, or what must be done differently in carburetion or injection to use these fuels. So I don't really know how far one can take this without inducing difficulties.
As to more water in the fuel (separated water, the only harmful kind), it may be that buying 10% ethanol fuel where the ethanol has more than 5% water could cause additional separated water. The amount of liquid water that can be absorbed by ethanol increases with temperature. So, if you buy gas with ethanol "formulated for summer driving" -- i.e. during the summer months, and leave it in the tank until winter when the temperature is much lower, you could actually wind up with more separated liquid water than if you bought unadulterated gasoline.
It is my view that most separated water that appears in the bottom of a gasoline tank is due to "breathing" of the tank with temperature changes, and condensation that sinks to the bottom, where it cannot evaporate. Over many cycles, water accumulates. The best defense is a full tank, since it doesn't have much room to "breathe". I always top off my tanks before I park the bikes, unless I know that I will be riding in the next day or so. I keep gasoline on the place (in a shed removed from all other structures), so if the subsequent riding cannot take place, I can top off the gas tanks.
Now that I know that water is deliberately added to the ethanol, I will also need to be careful about leaving "summer" gas in the tanks. Rats!!
Quote from: TLRam1 on June 26, 2012, 12:02:14 PM
Nothing changed with Star Tron, and again nothing changed when Sea Foam was added. As Lawrence mention I also added alcohol, all I had was Isopropyl and again no changes.
Was it Unsaturated Isopropyl Alcohol? Some people get confused because rubbing alcohol says Isopropyl on the label even though it is saturated.
Confused than as it was rubbing alcohol.
Even though Isopropyl Alcohol absorbs water and burns, I have no experience using it as a fuel additive. I would stick with ethanol. Ethanol is the stuff that is in liquor, beer, etc. Both Methanol and Isopropyl are highly toxic if ingested, and can result in blindness even in small amounts.
I apologize for using the generic term "alcohol" instead of the more specific "ethanol". My bad. :sad: