So the past few weeks I've been riding my 'low miles' magna, from Oklahoma and back to an annual charity ride I do every year that supports entertainment industry charities.
it's a fun group, great ride, and each year the ride is in a different region of the US. This year was the Pacific Northwest. A great place to get away from the heat of Oklahoma. Except when they have a hot weather wave show up while you're there. The group is the Long Reach Long Riders... www.LRLR.org.
So the trip was great. We ended on a Saturday, with departures planned for Sunday. Another rider had a need to be back in Houston by Wednesday 6am for work. So we decided we would ride the Iron Butt ride of 2,000 miles in 48 hours, from Seattle, WA to Norman, OK. He would have time for a good 8-10 hours rest at my place before continuing to Houston tuesday. Great plan.
As some here know, my 2003 Magna just turned over to 00,000 miles on my way to Mootmag this summer (AKA100,000 miles). So after leaving Seattle at 5am Sunday, we were in Spokane about 10am when I heard a very sudden loud rattling sound. Even going 80mph, with earplugs in, lots of wind noise, and my hearing loss, I still heard it plain as day. Not cool.
So we pull into a Honda shop that we had just passed. It had a sign that it was closed but we could see folks riding in the back, so we went in. Finding it was a riders training class, and not the shop folks having a play day as we'd hoped, we hunkered down and thought about possible issues. I had just installed new spark plugs before the ride and thought that mayber there was an issue there. We both thought the noise was one of the front cylinders but couldn't tell if left or right. So we pulled both front sparkplugs, using the stock toolkit and my buddy holding the radiator out of the way. Good thing we had lots of extra water to cool things off before sticking my hands back there.
one plug, the front left (as you are sitting on the bike) had a strange discoloration on the white porcelain part. See photo. Otherwise they looked great, nice color, and they were tight (was hoping they were loose and making the rattling noise). So, next step was to call Buddy from this list, who assisted in thinking the Cam Chain could have something to do with it. He further assisted by sharing Greg's phone number. Brilliant. (and a HUGE THANK YOU GUYS!) So while describing the noise, Greg aptly described it back to me as "sounding like a chain in a tin can rattling at 5,000 rpm". Yep, pretty sure it's the Cam Chain Tensioner.
Now here's the fun part... my phone battery was dying, as in, it's been dying for many weeks now. It doesn't hold a charge. A new battery was supposed to arrive before I left Norman, but it didn't. So here I am, talking to Greg, and within minutes the battery is beeping to tell me it is almost out of juice. Bad phone. So I get my charger and see there is a handy dandy outlet just over there on the side of the Honda shop. Something is plugged in, looks to be battery tenders for the tractors on sale on tha porch. So I say to myself "self, just plug it in there". And in removing the plug find out it is realy a continuous circuit alarm, as in, you break the circuit, and it sets of a noisy alarm. Bless Greg's heart he didn't react much when I said I'd just set off an alarm.... and of course I'm hoping our conversation ends before the battery life of the phone.
We get the spark plugs back in.. alarm chiming away. We are literally almost done when the County Sheriff pulls in... 30 minutes after the alarm started, and about 2 minutes after it ended. We had our earplugs in it was so darn loud. Needless to say, the Sheriff was a great guy and assisted us by escorting us off the property, and directing us to the Harley shop. (really, that's not sarcasm. He was great.)
Now of course, it's Sunday morning, in Spokane, WA, and the only shop open is the Harley shop. Whose Asst. Service Manager happens to be the son of the Service Manager of the Honda shop down the road. And who offers to see me first thing... Tuesday morning when the shop opens up again. Not a great option, and knowing finding a Cam Chain Tensioner was not very likely on short notice, we sucked it up.
And rented a Penske. the only truck available in town other than a very large and expensive UHaul. And we drove from Spokane to Norman in the remaining 34 hours.
We arrived Tuesday morning around noon. My pal got a flight to Houston as we were knackered. (I actually haven't heard from him since I dropped him off at the airport... I hope he isn't still sleeping there!)
Now, here I am, waiting for Cam Chain Tensioners to show up and hoping the Cam Chain itself isn't damaged. The service shop tells me it is an 16-18 hour job to replace the Cam Chains! Which I believe, based on looking at the service manual. But wow.
Meanwhile, I do have one concern: The spark plug's odd color in the porcelain. Not that I am a smart spark plug reader, I get the basics, but I have never seen this. Anyone care to contribute? Of course, snarky remarks about the tirp, or the visit with the County Sherriff, are expected at this point. Sorry it's a little fuzzy, but you can still see the brown discoloration of the white porcelain.
I have seen this effect on plugs that I replaced in automobiles. My guess then, and now, was that the seal between the ceramic and the metal plug housing was either outgassing or compromised, or both. It looks as though the plug has been really hot, but that may not mean much. I remember being concerned in the process of an engine overhaul on the little four cylinder in an MGA sports car that I was disassembling to overhaul -- thinking -- "O, man, I bet the valves are burned on this one." -- but was not the case. None of 'em were in pristine shape, and took a lot of lapping of new valves to seat properly, but the cylinder sporting the "burned looking" plug was no worse than the others.
So, I don't know what to tell you. I have a fiber optic probe gizmo that will let you look through the plug hole at the inside of the cylinder. You may be able to find one to borrow or rent. New ones probably have a tiny TV camera so you can view it on a laptop. If you can't find such a device, I would reassemble the whole cheese, forget about it, and ride on...
I would talk to Allen.. I think he is the cam tensioner expert.. there is a post on here somewhere that tells you how to fix the tensioner out in the road..
I've seen post of people running the motor for a pretty long period with the racket going on and no damage to the chain, so, I think you are fine with just a new tensioner...
I will try to dig through previous posts regarding cam chain tensioner... sadly I haven't had a call yet that the tensioner has arrived.
and of course weather is supposed to cool off to the 80's this weekend.
Thanks,
Hop Along
Yep you MAY be able to pull the tensioner and repair it the spring usually breaks at the bottom and you can just put a new bend in it. And Jimmy is the expert LOL but I have worked a few also. I did do a thread let me see if I can find it .
Found it http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php/topic,2315.0.html
Nice thanks... it certainly is a popular topic when doing a search here on 'Cam'... :shock:
Is it fixed yet.... (http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm137waiting.gif)
Yes it is fixed. It was easy... once I bought a ratching box end wrench. The little 8mm wrench that came in the tool kit just didn't fit well. Neither did my hands reaching in the tight space between the V of the engine. My thought here was 'work smarter, not harder'. The hardest part was probably getting the 'locking bolt' to start threading after installing the Tensioner. Kudos to Honda though for making well machined parts; once it was started, it was easy to keep threading, even with the light touch of one finger.
I had removed the fake cooling fins a long time ago, so those were out of the way. Otherwise, it was thanks to long fingertips, the above mentioned wrench, and needle nose pliers (to remove the special locking bit once the tensioner was installed). I did not change the rear one, but will do so the next time the bike is on the lift in my garage.
It was quite apparent that the front was broken; there should have been some tension on the two mounting bolts, even while removing them. No tension=broken spring.
next up: front brake pads. Still pondering the one spark plug mentioned earlier... I may replace it with a new plug just to test the theory that one was not up to manufacturer standards.
I do have to say: nothing like the satisfactory sound of Cam Chain on rollers and guides, whirring away. (Although on a side note, I noticed an intermittent sound I have been hearing for over 45,000 miles also went away... can you say LONG TERM SLOW FAIL OF CAM CHAIN TENSIONER???!! Of course, I had thought, and my mechanics also thought back then, that there was a loose part somewhere that we just couldn't find (suction through the airbox was one theory). The sound was only present at certain rpm's, in any gear. I guess I owe my girl one as she called it about 20,000 miles ago....)
Thank you again...
Hop Along
I was 99.99% sure that was what it was....
... and just out of curiosity... what could the .01% have worked out to be?!?
Personally I'd like to think squirrels in the airbox could make that kind of chatter, though I don't know how well they'd keep in synch with changes in engine speed.... :grin:
thanks again Greg for helping out on the phone!!!-
Hop Along
yeah yeah rebooting a dead thread...
... but I just had to replace my front cam chain tensioner again. All said and done, I think this is #3 or #4. Rear has never been an issue (though it was replaced preemptively with the first dead front tensioner, maybe that was at 110,000 miles?)
This replacement is now at about 156,000 miles. I recently switched from Rotella T6 full synthetic 5w-40 to Rotella T5 semi synthetic 15w-40.
Last replacement, I think, was around 120 or 130,000 miles.
At least I have the change method down haha
Happy Riding
Hop Along
Which one normally goes?
I put 70+K on my Yellow Magna
I have put 45K on my Red Magna
I have put 4K on my Black Magna..
I've never had a tensioner failure.. Knock on wood...
I believe it is almost always the front that goes..
I guess I should buy one just to be ready for the inevitable event..
Other than getting your hands in a tight spot.. What does a person need to know about replacing??
Quote from: TLRam1 on August 23, 2017, 11:06:07 PM
Which one normally goes?
Terry, the Front goes, I've never had an issue with the rear.
I now travel with a new spare tensioner, a ratcheting 8mm box end wrench, mini telescoping magnet, and a pair of latex gloves to do the job.
Not recommended to do it while engine is hot... only tiny fingers fit!
Hop Along
Quote from: hop along on August 24, 2017, 08:05:56 AM
Quote from: TLRam1 on August 23, 2017, 11:06:07 PM
Which one normally goes?
Terry, the Front goes, I've never had an issue with the rear.
I now travel with a new spare tensioner, a ratcheting 8mm box end wrench, mini telescoping magnet, and a pair of latex gloves to do the job.
Not recommended to do it while engine is hot... only tiny fingers fit!
Hop Along
what do you use the magnet for?
Same question as Hoot and which side on the front, clutch side or stator side?
And is the tensioner the same for both sides on the front? I am looking to do what you do to be prepared.
I thought you bought a different bike to tour with?
Quote from: TLRam1 on August 25, 2017, 02:24:43 AM
Same question as Hoot and which side on the front, clutch side or stator side?
And is the tensioner the same for both sides on the front? I am looking to do what you do to be prepared.
I thought you bought a different bike to tour with?
Terry - The tensioner is on the rear side of each bank of cylinders, between the cylinders, in the center of the bike (the front one is directly below the carbs. It is a little tower that stands up.
It looks like a very easy replacement when the carbs are out..
I figure I'll replace mine and then my present one will be my spare (I guess I need to buy 2 gaskets, one for if the new one ever fails..
Yep, there is one tensioner for each pair of cylinders; both tensioners located center of bike, behind the cylinders.
They are different, though I've never had issues personally with the rear and have not heard of others having issues with the rear-only the front.
Removing the side covers is also helpful.
The magnet is useful for retrieving the little bolts when dropped. There are two to mount the tensioner, and one to close off the top after install. Tiny hands are also helpful haha. The crush washers I fetch out with a long allen key in the toolkit when I drop those (copper not being magnetic).
As for other rides-I did get a DR650 but I don't use that for the major mileage tours. In fact, my first dual sport ride in Vermont on Class IV roads and trails schooled me pretty good.... loose clutch, bent handlebars, lights not working, but at least I found out how tough the bash plate is!! :-)
Hop Along
Honda calls this a Lifter Assembly PN14530-MZ5-003, I thought they would be around 25.00 dollars.
I bought one today, but it is NOT $25!!
Hop provided me with some instructions, so I'm posting it here so I can search for it later
Tensioner install instructions
It's pretty easy. I always leave bike in gear while doing the work.
NOTE: new tensioner comes with a little key in the top of it... DO NOT REMOVE KEY UNTIL AFTER IT IS INSTALLED (manual has directions on how to reset if needed but it is a pain)
1 Loosen top bolt on old tensioner, do not remove yet.
2 remove two mounting bolts-if there is still tension, back bolts off a little at a time, alternating sides. Save bolts and crush washers for re-use. This is where I find the magnet useful... I always drop these bolts. reclaim the bolts and crush washers if dropped, before pulling the tensioner out of the hole.
--now pull tensioner out of the hole, and remove the top bolt/crush washer. Save for re-use.
3 replace gasket if needed (not likely). Do not drop anything in the open hole!
4 put new tensioner in place, tighten both mounting bolts. There shouldn't be tension yet, you can fully tighten one bolt at a time. Note: torque is low, no need to crank. Barely more than finger tight is sufficient.
5 now that new tensioner is in place, and mounting bolts tightened-remove the key from the top to engage the spring (IE the tensioner now has tension).
6 replace the top bolt and crush washer. Again, low torque needed. Barely more than finger tight is sufficient.
Ride away with a smile. :-P
Hop Along
Where did you get the tensioner at?
Quote from: TLRam1 on August 25, 2017, 11:46:15 PM
Where did you get the tensioner at?
I'm in the middle of several projects on the bike, I have the carbs out to up the main jets.
I would like to get it all back together, so I got it at my local Honda dealer.. I have an account with them under my work name, so they give me 10% off.. Not a big deal but better than Retail..
Anyone else (yes I can get it cheaper) like Ron Ayers, Bike Bandit, etc, then they have to order it, receive it and then re ship to me.. So at least a week for parts..
I ordered on Friday, my parts should be in late Tuesday.
On really long trips I ride with a front tensioner, replacement levers, and a replacement kill switch.
But mostly I just trailer to far-away destinations now since I don't have a windshield or touring set up.
Quote from: MagnaMan on August 28, 2017, 06:22:47 PM
On really long trips I ride with a front tensioner, replacement levers, and a replacement kill switch.
But mostly I just trailer to far-away destinations now since I don't have a windshield or touring set up.
No regulator or Vacuum shut-off rebuild kit???
Quote from: hootmon on August 28, 2017, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: MagnaMan on August 28, 2017, 06:22:47 PM
On really long trips I ride with a front tensioner, replacement levers, and a replacement kill switch.
But mostly I just trailer to far-away destinations now since I don't have a windshield or touring set up.
No regulator or Vacuum shut-off rebuild kit???
Nope. Not yet. ;-) I've only had to replace one regulator and haven't had an issue with it since then. Of course I don't have a meter on my Magna I just ride it and go. You can bypass the vacuum fuel cutoff if you have to or I actually used gum to block it up until I got home when it did fail.
A little long and wondering.. But shows some pretty good views of the tensioners and how to install them...
Youtube (https://youtu.be/aJrBjCv8ZnI)
Thanks for the video Harry.
We have never tracked the failure rate of these and have no record how often these fail. Should replacing the front one be part of the maintenance every 60,000 miles or what would be reasonable? Easier to replace at home with all your tools and a cold motor than on a trip.
The tensioners tend to fail more often if you rev the engine up to high rpms before shifting if you shift at lower rpms they don't seem to fail as often.
I had 90K on my Yellow Magna
I have 50K on my Red Magna
I have never had a tensioner failure... I've been accused of reving the Magna a little.. (Just a little, between each shift :lol:)
🏍🏍