Magna Owners Of Texas

Public Forums => The Garage => Topic started by: punchy on November 23, 2014, 11:21:44 AM

Title: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on November 23, 2014, 11:21:44 AM
hi  guys,
          I'm at a loss as to the remedy for this.... i just fitted another reg/rec (3rd one), everything running and charging great, 15 miles into my trip and the charging indicator (kuyreakyn) light went off.. then the amber warning light went off then finally the battery died...no power to start the bike..Had to get assistance to get my self/wife/ and bike trailer-ed home...put a fresh battery on and she fired up, but not showing any charging lights, and was draining the battery...  when i put the flattened battery on my multi-meter it was showing 11.45 so was not completely flat ????
                               Urgent help would be appreciated, thanks. Punchy.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: hootmon on November 23, 2014, 03:49:38 PM
Re-check all of your connections.. The terminals on the connectors could have been damaged (overheated) with the failure.
Otherwise (and it's rare) you want to check out the stator. (Consult the shop manual for the checks on this)
OR - Maybe you got a bum regulator..
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: Jerry G Turner on November 23, 2014, 06:42:19 PM
If the wiring looks ok I would suspect the stator they can go bad and it may have been a bad rectifier.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on November 26, 2014, 01:39:43 PM
well guys, i left the replacement battery on wiggled, push and pulled the connectors and fired her up, charging lights on so i presume i had a loose connection ... thing is, when i put the battery back on that was in place when she cut out (reading 11.46 when tested ) wouldn't turn the motor, not even tried. The lights came on and that was all.. Just wondering if you think the battery is knackered ??
:???: :???:
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: lragan on November 26, 2014, 02:29:08 PM
The old battery may only be discharged.  I would check the fluid levels (assuming you have access to the cells -- not, of course if you have a sealed unit), then charge the battery with an external charger.  If it still won't start the engine, I would either discard it or have it load tested.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on November 30, 2014, 01:08:00 PM

hi guys, i got the battery load tested and it was no good, think the old rec/reg cooked it (replaced rec/reg).. got a new battery, checked the wires and connectors fired her up.. charging good, between
12 - 15 1/2 on my gauge.. got her fired up this morning and a red light came up on my gauge indicating
that its starting to over charge.. terminals were warm to... any ideas ???? dont want to ride her in case i cook another battery...Help

:sad:
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: lragan on November 30, 2014, 04:08:51 PM
You may need a new regulator/rectifier.  There are two failure mechanisms on these units.  The series diodes can fail, in which case the unit does not charge (there are 6  of em, and a few can fail so it does not charge well.  The most insidious failure).  There are shunt units that short the outputs from the alternator at the correct point in the cycle to supply only the current required.  I am reasonably sure that these shunt devices have failed in your unit, allowing it to charge for all it is worth, all the time.

On the other hand, you say you have a new reg/rec.  What brand?  Where did you acquire it?  I suppose it was faulty at the outset, but this seems unlikely.  There appears no place in the wiring where this type failure could originate.

I am really puzzled about your unit failing in the wintertime.  The usual killer of these units is heat.  Several of us have relocated the units -- oops, are you riding a 1st gen bike?  The R/R on these is properly located for good cooling.  The 3rd gen bikes mount the R/R under the battery box, right behind the engine.  While I have experienced one failure on my 3rd gens with the R/R in the original location, the relocated ones have yet to fail (fingers still crossed!).  If you will check the other threads on R/R, you can see how this is done.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on December 01, 2014, 12:46:37 PM

hi, i got the reg/rec from my local bike shop, gonna check the systme from end to end..
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on December 07, 2014, 05:33:47 AM
hi, i took everything electrical off that was'nt needed, the multi meter still shows
that its charging at 18-19 volts . . help . .  :?
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: hootmon on December 07, 2014, 08:10:54 AM
Quote from: punchy on December 07, 2014, 05:33:47 AM
hi, i took everything electrical off that was'nt needed, the multi meter still shows
that its charging at 18-19 volts . . help . .  :?
What Lawrence said... I had a regulator that over charged the battery, dried it right out.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: Jerry G Turner on December 07, 2014, 08:41:27 AM
I would take the rectifier back to the shop where you bought it see if they can test it for you.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: TLRam1 on December 08, 2014, 12:28:55 AM
Make sure you use an OEM unit, less problems, some have used aftermarket ones with mixed results.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on December 08, 2014, 08:11:46 AM
hi,
    as soon as the weathers fit im takin the bike to my local shop and gonna test the generator
see what its kickin out . . its only quarter of a mile away. .
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: lragan on December 08, 2014, 08:48:49 AM
If you have a meter that is anywhere near accurate, your R/R is bad.  18-19 volts will cook a battery in short order.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: TLRam1 on December 09, 2014, 12:12:27 AM
It is called a regulator for a reason and it's not regulating.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on December 13, 2014, 06:37:03 AM

hi Guys, I've had the reg/rec checked out and its ok, the mechanic is going to check what the generator is
kicking out, what should the spec be for the generator ? any ideas as to what the problem maybe ? :-?
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: hootmon on December 13, 2014, 12:48:30 PM
This is all the manual says.. Basically, if you have continuity, it should be good...

Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: lragan on December 13, 2014, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: punchy on December 13, 2014, 06:37:03 AM

hi Guys, I've had the reg/rec checked out and its ok, the mechanic is going to check what the generator is
kicking out, what should the spec be for the generator ? any ideas as to what the problem maybe ? :-?

I question whether this "mechanic" knows what he is doing.  If you are still getting 18-19V, the regulator is no good -- period.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: Jerry G Turner on December 13, 2014, 03:42:09 PM
The generator is either working or not working the regulator controls the voltage so I am with Lawrence I don't think your mechanic knows what he is talking about.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: ripster31 on December 17, 2014, 03:20:45 PM
if i remember correctly from the repair manual you should read between 14 to 14.5 on your meter for it to be in range.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: hootmon on December 17, 2014, 06:25:54 PM
Quote from: ripster31 on December 17, 2014, 03:20:45 PM
if i remember correctly from the repair manual you should read between 14 to 14.5 on your meter for it to be in range.
That voltage would be the output of the Regulator NOT the stator.. The stator puts out AC voltage..
I attached pictures of the pages from the manual.. It only mentions continuity testing, not voltage testing..

If you are getting 18+ volts, it seems like all three phases of the stator are likely working to get that much voltage..
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: ripster31 on December 19, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
thanks i will check my clutch again, but it looks like its where it needs to be but i will recheck it.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on February 22, 2015, 10:04:39 AM
update.... i took the bike back to my bike shop, changed reg/rec and still got the same problem..
everything is fine for the first few seconds of firing her up then it starts over charging at 2000+ rpm..
any ideas ???? the only other thing i changed was the magneto casing gasket and things seemed ok in there...  Any ideas please ???? could it be something else ???? i've just noticed a silicone rectifier with 3 spade connectors, could it be that ?
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: SkyRide on February 22, 2015, 12:12:10 PM
Check the smaller black wire going to the RR. 

The alternator and RR are designed to be able to put out a higher voltage than needed.  It is the job of the black wire to turn the regulator output on when the battery voltage is low and  turn it off when the voltage gets high.  This happens quickly, six times for every alternator rotation.  if the black wire is miss connected, open, or shorted the RR will think the voltage is zero and it will keep trying make the voltage higher.  The voltage on the black wire, measured at the RR, should be the same as the battery voltage; anything different is wrong.

Rick Frankenberger

PS. If that fixes the problem, give thanks to Harold Stephen Black.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on February 23, 2015, 01:07:11 PM

hi, on the regulator unit i have 3 yellow wires, 2 red/white and 2 green wires.. i also have a  black wire that comes out of the unit but i can't see where it goes to..?? in the previous paragraph a black wire is mentioned, i cant see where  my black wirecouples to.. help please...
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: TLRam1 on February 23, 2015, 09:44:04 PM
Look under Magna FAQ Section Part 2

Look under >>> Manuals
http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php/topic,5865.msg55928.html#msg55928

You may get some help from the schematic.
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: SkyRide on February 24, 2015, 08:06:36 AM
I made a bad assumption that your RR would be wired like my 83.  Terry's 96 manual does not show any black wire; I wonder where yours goes.  It could be that the original Honda RR used an internal connection to red/white instead a black.

But the regulator you have now does have a black and it is connected somewhere.  If the RR is not OEM, maybe the black wire was added sometime in the bike's history to make it work.  Do you have any documentation for the replacement RR?

I'm not going to be much help since I really don't know the 96.  It sounds to me like either the regulator is broken and unable to reduce the alternator output voltage (not likely since you tried a different one), or that it works but thinks the voltage is too low.

It has been mentioned before, but never blindly trust your test equipment.  It could be the mechanic sees the regulator as good and you see it as bad because of inaccuracy in your meter.  Measure a different, good battery like in a car.  With the engine off a fully charged battery is around 13 volts just after it is charged and about 12.5 after resting an hour or so.  Your measurement should differ by no more than 1 volt.  The voltages you mention have been measured at the posts of the battery haven't they?

Rick
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on March 22, 2015, 09:46:42 AM

hi,
   update... i still haven't had the bike back to my garage yet due to the weather, but today i had another look around the bike and started it up... i noticed that the gauge was showing over charging after about 15 seconds of revs......and that the 3 yellow wires from the stator to the connection block were very hot..the 3 yellow wires from the reg / rec to the connection block were ok.. any ideas???
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on March 24, 2015, 01:19:13 PM

come on guys, over a 1000 views and no replys .... :(
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: lragan on March 24, 2015, 06:11:44 PM
Quote from: punchy on March 22, 2015, 09:46:42 AM

hi,
   update... i still haven't had the bike back to my garage yet due to the weather, but today i had another look around the bike and started it up... i noticed that the gauge was showing over charging after about 15 seconds of revs......and that the 3 yellow wires from the stator to the connection block were very hot..the 3 yellow wires from the reg / rec to the connection block were ok.. any ideas???

This sounds really weird, punchy.  Where are you located?
Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: punchy on March 25, 2015, 02:18:28 PM

hi Lawrence.
                 I'm in gods country, sunny England UK.. I sent to Japan a week or so ago and got a replacement reg/rec and it finally arrived today( and an eighth of the price). I fitted it and everything is running perfect whoopee.. i can only think that the reg/rec i got from my local shop was the wrong one.. Anyway it's going back at the weekend and see about a refund..Punchy

Title: Re: I need help guys...
Post by: lragan on March 25, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
Well, that is good news, indeed! 

I spent some 6 weeks in two sessions during the summer of 1970 -- in the North See off Great Yarmouth.  Then spent some time working with Plessey Semi in Swindon in 1989-90 time frame.  Really liked the country and the folks who live there. 

Perhaps if I could have learned the language, I might have stayed... :lol: :lol: