What rear tires have you tried?
I MAY change off the Dunlop and try something different for more mileage, assuming I am okay with the other aspects of the tire.
Did you have to add washers to your brakestay rod, how many and to the front & back?
Quote from: TLRam1 on October 10, 2016, 01:28:06 PM
What rear tires have you tried?
I MAY change off the Dunlop and try something different for more mileage, assuming I am okay with the other aspects of the tire.
Did you have to add washers to your brakestay rod, how many and to the front & back?
Thanx for asking..
I've tried them all (at least most)..
The best tire I've had was a car tire, but learned later that you are not suppose to run a care tire on a 15" rim. (Bike rim is slightly larger diameter, which I can attest to). IF I ever have another bike, I'd go back to a car tire, but would purchase a run flat if at all possible.
My next favorite is what I am running now, and what I am about to buy again - Pirelli Night Dragon (https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/3792/27317/Pirelli-Night-Dragon-Rear-Motorcycle-Tire?0) 170/80 15
Next best was the Metzler, but it is more money and I did not like it quite as good as the Pirelli..
I acquired an aftermarket brake stay.. I think I ordered it from Magniac, at least it is the one he sells.
I've found that M/C tires are only good for 1.5 to 2 years anyways, then they start to get hard and loose traction.. So, depending on how many miles you are doing a year on the Magna, then that may change your opinion.
I liked the Michelin Commander II, but it sucked in the rain.. So that is a no go..
I'll just throw this in as a bonus (not that I have not said it before) Best bang for the buck, is go for the Michelin Pilot Road 4 for the front.. FABULOUS!! Wish they made a 15" rear tire, but they do not..
Can you beat the Rocky Mountain price?? for the Pirelli.. I've heard stay away from Dennis Kirk for tires, they frequently send old tires they buy cheap..
Enough yet???
That is what I was looking for.
From what I can tell, I think the Pirelli will be the newer GT version, although you can still find the older ones around.
If I try the Night Dragon I would prefer to space out the brake rod instead of buying the replacement for just trying out a tire, I don't know what it takes to space out the brake rod.
1. With what appears as not much center tread grooves, have you had issues with the Night Dragon in the rain?
2. How many miles do you get on the Night Dragon?
Thanks for commenting on the front as that was my followup question.
1. Have you researched the Michelin Activ for the front?
2. Do you know the circumference for the front Pilot 4 compared to the K555? Looking for the speedo difference along with the overall circumference difference.
Pricing, you have a handful of companies who buy tires in quantity, you get a better deal but that is where people complain of age (not always), the dealers are stuck with them until they sell. When we sell a tire, we get them from the supplier and are as fresh as the tires will get but you pay more. I have always had good dates on tires I have purchased directly for my bike, so far. To get down to the nitty gritty of what you are looking for, we make about $4.50 at that price, if we had the ire priced out properly on our site we would be selling it in the 153-154 range. Discounts dealers receive on tires can change monthly so you can see a variance all of a sudden.
I like Avon's I have them on the front and the rear. I also bought a brake stay rod they don't cost that much.
Which Avon's are you running Jerry?
Hoot's experience matches mine. Motorcycle tires seem to get slicker and harder after about two years of being exposed to the elements. So I'd match tires to the mileage you plan to put on them.
If you want a matched set (front and back) at stock size there are only two choices now, the last time I researched this about 1 year ago: Dunlop and Metzeler. The Dunlops are softer but they are cheaper than most. I'm also running Shinkos on one of my Magnas and I like them. They don't make a stock front tire size though. But they are the only one with a white wall option for my purple and white Magna.
Stock Tire Sizes
First number is tire width in mm / second number sidewall height as percentage of the width
Front Tire: 120/80-17 tubeless 3"
Rear Tire: 150/80-15 tubeless 3.5"
Other Tire sizes and their sidewall heights in millimeters (mm)
Front
110/90-17 is 99
120/80-17 is 96
120/70-17 is 84
120/90-17 is 108
130/80-17 is 104 (for a white wall option in Shinko)
130/70-17 is 91
Rear
150/80-15 is 120
150/90-15 is 135 (also in a white wall option in Shinko)
160/80-15 is 128 (trying this size currently due to smaller contact patches on the 170 and 180 sizes)
170/80-15 is 136
180/70-15 is 126
Notes on the rear tire size
170/80 R15 (Too tall in my opinion. Bottomed out at least once and bent license plate bracket on the fender.)
180/70 R15 (Seems to have smaller contact patch than stock width. Perhaps due to cupping.)
Regarding the brake stay rod. I have a Cycle-istic one, but I don't really know that you need it... or even shimming for that matter. I'd install the wider tire first and the see what you think.
The main thing about the wider tires is they may look cooler but most of them are rated for a 4" rim and we have 3.5". So I think they actually have a smaller contact patch because they are cupped. I unofficially noticed this after rolling my Magna through dust and seeing what stuck to the tire. I measured it and it seemed to be disproportionately smaller on the wider tires.
If you want a Cycle-istic brake stay rod, however, I have one new in the package that is yours. (I owe you.)
This could be an issue if these are all the same as I ride two-up frequently.
170/80 R15 (Too tall in my opinion. Bottomed out at least once and bent license plate bracket on the fender.)
Was your license plate the stock bracket Jesse?
Quote from: TLRam1 on October 11, 2016, 11:21:43 AM
Was your license plate the stock bracket Jesse?
Yes. It's the stock bracket that comes down from the fender. Hit bottom on a railroad crossing in a small Texas town and had to pull over and straighten stuff out to keep from rubbing. I was riding one up with stock suspension and saddle bags. Don't remember what the preload settings was on the shocks. Usually I ride with the preload in the middle or all the way on.
With the larger tire on the back the brake stay would touch the tire if you were putting 40 lbs of air in it. That is why I went with the other brake stay rod. It looks better too.
Michelin Pilot is a 120 70 17 (instead of an 80).. it throws the Speedo off by about 10% (reading faster than you are actually going). It also increases the speed that the odometer accumulates by 10%, so when you have 100K on the bike you really only have 90K..
I have run the Avon Cobra's twice on the Magna.. I liked them at 1st, but had the same issue with both of them.. When they were worn, I picked up a front in shimmy when in curves.. This went away both times when I replaced the rear tire.
The Pirelli has been the best in the rain so far (outside of a car tire). Part of the function of the front tire is to push the water away so the rear tire doesn't have to deal with as much water.. The Pilot does a great job of this, but the Michelin Commander still did not do well even with the Pilot pushing water in front of it.
The GT version is NOT a newer version, but a different version.. It's intent is for heavier machines (Think Harley tour bikes), You do not need the extra stiffness of the GT on a Magna.
The rear Avon is a venom X and the front is a road rider the front is stock size the rear is wider. The front is fairly new had a Dunlop before which had started to cause the front to wopple.
Quote from: Jerry G Turner on October 11, 2016, 07:59:24 PM
The rear Avon is a venom X and the front is a road rider the front is stock size the rear is wider. The front is fairly new had a Dunlop before which had started to cause the front to wopple.
You are correct Jerry.. I should have stated Venom rear tires, not Cobra's .. I knew it had something to do with snakes!
Has anyone else had issues with a 170 tire hitting your license plate bracket if you bottom out?
Jesse, on this tire what does the 136 represent?
170/80-15 is 136
If it is circumference, on the Dunlop 170 the diameter is 25.95 and I get 81.5" for a circumference.
Terry. Very sorry for the confusion. I did not have any labels on those numbers. But I added them back to my original post.
So based on a tire sizing article I read (and I think it's even on the MOOT site). The numbers in the aspect ratio (like 170 / 80) break down like this:
- 170 is the width of the tire in mm
- 80 the sidewall's height as a percentage of the width, meaning the sidewall is 80% of tire's width.
So follow my calculations and let me know what you think.
- So 170 mm x .8 = 136 mm for the sidewall's height or 5.35 inches vs the stock tire size of 150/80 means a sidewall height of 96mm or 3.78 inches.
- 5.25" - 3.78" equals 1.57" inches difference.
- You'll only lose 1.5" of clearance under the fender.
- However the tire will go 1.5" closer to front and back of the fenders as it spins around.
- As the chain wears and you move the tire back to adjust the tension, you will gradually decrease the clearance between the tire and the stock license plate holder.
Incidentally, the entire tire will be about 3" taller because we have a taller sidewall at the top of the tire and the bottom.
Using the sidewall heights I calculated in that listing above you can see the relative differences in lift and clearance.
Makes more sense Jesse but differs to what Dunlop says using there numbers for the two tire sizes.
K555 Rear 150/80-15 Diameter 24.65
K555 Rear 170/80-15 Diameter 25.95
1.3 inches taller overall
Split the difference between top and bottom (or opposite points) would be .65 inches taller at the top and .65 inches at the bottom. Am I not understanding this correctly?
If Dunlop says that's the diameter for their tire sizes then I would go with those numbers. I was just trying to calculate the difference from the supposed aspect ratios. ;-) But I wasn't too sure about it, like I said.
Quote from: MagnaMan on October 12, 2016, 07:08:01 PM
If Dunlop says that's the diameter for their tire sizes then I would go with those numbers. I was just trying to calculate the difference from the supposed aspect ratios. ;-) But I wasn't too sure about it, like I said.
I didn't see an answer to your question on how many washers to space out the rod for the oversized rear tire, since most just up for the new rod. I used 5 SS washers to space mine out for an oversized Dunlop and have never had any issues.
Quote from: Lurkin on October 24, 2016, 08:02:19 AM
I didn't see an answer to your question on how many washers to space out rod for the oversized rear tire, since must just up for the new rod. I used 5 SS washers to space mine out for an oversized Dunlop and have never had any issues.
Great, thanks for the answer. I have been out of town the last 5 days and left this thread in limbo. I will try out the Dragon and watch for the bottoming out problem Jesse talked about. In the mean time I will space the brake stay rod out as you mentioned. At some point I may end up taking Jesse up on his generous offer.
Quote from: TLRam1 on October 12, 2016, 06:32:40 PM
K555 Rear 150/80-15 Diameter 24.65
K555 Rear 170/80-15 Diameter 25.95
1.3 inches taller overall
Split the difference between top and bottom (or opposite points) would be .65 inches taller at the top and .65 inches at the bottom. Am I not understanding this correctly?
The split is even only if the pressure is infinite. With any real pressure, the tire will flatten a bit on the bottom, and the displaced air will distribute evenly around the perimeter of the rest of the tire. Probably not much, but it is there. If it were not, of course, there could be no traction, since the contact "point" (actually a transverse line) would be insignificant. So it will be closer to the fender (all around) than the 0.65 inches. How much? Very complex calculation, involving not just pressure but sidewall stiffness, etc. etc.
The Pirelli was not easy to get on, nor did it seat easy, up to ninety pounds and did not seat on one side. Busted the bead on the problem side, spayed with tire lube and it seated.
Quote from: TLRam1 on March 26, 2017, 04:36:49 AM
The Pirelli was not easy to get on, nor did it seat easy, up to ninety pounds and did not seat on one side. Busted the bead on the problem side, spayed with tire lube and it seated.
I didn't mount it myself, but watched it being mounted (twice - this is my 2nd night dragon) and there never seemed to be an issue with mounting..
Are you using weights or beads?
I am using weights, with the one weight I already had on the rim there was no extra weight needed. Probably the easiest and most accurately balanced tire I have mounted, not that this helps anything except made my job easy.
Quote from: TLRam1 on March 26, 2017, 03:32:55 PM
I am using weights, with the one weight I already had on the rim there was no extra weight needed. Probably the easiest and most accurately balanced tire I have mounted, not that this helps anything except made my job easy.
Let me know what you think of the tire...
Mine is the GT version, the supplier I deal with no longer has the non GT version. Heading on a trip this weekend to Louisiana for the loop I posted up earlier, may get into some rain Sunday on the way back.
My bike has Avon tires also. Good grip and handling.
The tire is working well, slipped on me once. I did buy a 17T front sprocket I have yet to put on.
I'm running a Shinko 230 (150/90-15) on mine. The rear is a LOT bigger than the Dunlop was and rubbed the license plate bracket with a hard bump but after fixing that I love the way it rides and handles
We did ride two-up with the Pirelli on our last trip a few weeks ago and luckily we did not ran into the issues Jesse had, hoping it stays that way.
Question on this subject boys, girls, and others. I need a new rear tire, finally wore one out instead of picking up a nail or screw and deciding to replace it. My replacements to-date have been Dunlops, first one was 150, then a 170, current one is a 170. I always purchased the Dunlops since they were cheaper, and it seemed like I had to replace it due to road hazard than wear, so buy the cheaper one.
I looked yesterday and the Dunlop pricing seems to have gone way up, around $175-185 for the 170/80-15, while the Metz, Pirelli, Avon, Michelin run around $140-155, so ???, what is going on with the pricing?
If this pricing holds, I'm not sure what to buy now. I have had my Magna for over 11 years now and the most miles/yr has been about 4K, currently around 2K at the most. So age and tire hardening are more of an issue than wear.
I could use some input/opinions on what you think might work best in my case. I am thinking, due to low mileage, just buy by price from the options above. If I did that, it would be the Metz. I also noticed that there is now also an ME880 and an ME888, input on the difference? Although from the input already given above, the Pirelli might be a better choice in tire, and the price difference between the Metz and Pirelli is irrelevant.
Thoughts, opinions, misc BS... It's all welcome.
Both the Metz and the Night Dragon are good tires.. I can usually find the Night Dragon a little cheaper.. (and I like it better)..
IF you are not going to change your tires for years.. You could look into Shanko's (SP?) and IRC tires.. I have no input on how good they are, but some have liked them.. They are usually a cheaper option..
BUT, Tires are the only contact between your motorcycle and the road, and therefore are highly important..
In the end the decision is your and yours alone since YOU have to pay the consequences of your decision..
Thanks Hoot. Kind of where I am at right now is between the Metz and Pirelli. On the Shinko's and IRC's, I am always concerned with a significantly cheaper MC tire for the reasons you stated, and I have read some seriously bad things about the IRC's, but that was several years ago.
You've had both the Metz and the Pirelli? Which one would you consider to have better grip in dry and rain conditions? Given what I've said about my usage, I am not as concerned with wear as I am over grip.
Quote from: Lurkin on August 22, 2017, 08:04:49 AM
Thanks Hoot. Kind of where I am at right now is between the Metz and Pirelli. On the Shinko's and IRC's, I am always concerned with a significantly cheaper MC tire for the reasons you stated, and I have read some seriously bad things about the IRC's, but that was several years ago.
You've had both the Metz and the Pirelli? Which one would you consider to have better grip in dry and rain conditions? Given what I've said about my usage, I am not as concerned with wear as I am over grip.
Both are good.. I like the ND a little better and and usually get it a bit cheaper.. So, what's not to like?
I used the Shinko tire one time it wore out way to fast I had to replace it at about 5000 miles.
Thanks for the input gents. Anyone have favorite places to buy? Last time I bought from swmototires.com
Quote from: Lurkin on August 25, 2017, 07:50:42 AM
Thanks for the input gents. Anyone have favorite places to buy? Last time I bought from swmototires.com
I've purchased from RockyMountainATV a few times, Motorcycle Superstore.. I don't care, really.. I know what Tire I want, so who has it at the best price that will stand behind the sale.. I say the last part because if I receive a tire that is 5 or more years old, I'm raising some cane!!
Just an update. First off, thanks for the input gents, much appreciated. I bought the Pirelli, as it was a bit cheaper than all but the Shinko, but I wasn't sure about the Shinko. So far, overall, I like the Pirelli after first rides. Although, I have noticed that it seems to ride rougher than the Dunlop, maybe due to harder compound, which may equate to longer life? Might also be psychological, but oh well, during highway rides over some rougher pavement, I noticed myself getting bopped around a bit more. I'm also running a few pounds less air pressure.
I run 40-42 PSI in mine
New tire, thicker rubber on the road might make it seem stiffer/rougher