Carburetor Jet Tuning - Updates on 1st Post

[roboto65]

Yeah there is a magic spot but you will have to find it and that means trial and error. Bikes are like people no 2 are the same so it depends on your bike. Yes we can get close but for a perfect tune I would say book the Dyno ALL day and play with the settings and jets till you get it right!!!!

[L J VFR]

I just don't see the need in pulling carbs just to put 105 mains in when it already screams at the top end... Lance    (IMO)

[Chad in Michigan]

I'm not tellin ya what to do, but telling you what worked for me. I've been the trial and error guy you don't want to be. It's a pain taking the carbs on/off 6-7 times, and believe me you won't get the ride time in or diagnose time in to change the jets even in a whole month. I started this last year about this time and it's finally where i like it, without going to the dyno shop/ exaust analyzer stuff. i will get it dynoed as soon as i can though. I want to go to a place that it about 90 miles from here, they have the Factory Pro Dyno that I read about. It's supposedly one of the better dyno's to use and gives real world numbers. I used a dyno last year when i had 108 mains, 42 pilots, 2 shims, v&h, k&n. they had a real old dyno, it was my first dyno experiance so i didn't know what to expect. it was green, had a mechanical dial on it for torque and whatever comes on it. they gave me a sheet that said i had 90hp / 89 ft/lbs torque. i thought that was high, and checked what everyone else was getting as it definately was not 89 for torque, more like trying to hit 50. so i need to go to a better shop. the temp here had been around 70 or so when i ran the latest setup. i live in Perry, near lansing. the las run i did with that setup was down to the greater Detroit area, and i put about 300 miles on in a day. Ran great, gas mileage was good enough, it didn't help that i was hitting 120 a few times on the way home, lol. the wost fuel mileage i've ever gotten even after running high rpm's around town and on the freeway for a good stretch is about 32/34 mpg. i usually get about 42/46.

Your saying I need to do this, correct?

#112 Mains

3  - Shims

#45 - Pilots

2.75 - Turns

What temperature is it up there? What part of Michigan?

Do you have an idea when you will have it dynoed?

[Greg Cothern]

Yeah 90 hp with only carb adjustments, and no way a Magna has that much torque either.  I believe  your right in their dyno is not correct.

Now if you have had different cams, head work, etc then did the carb work you might be at 90 hp.  Knew a guy whom had DD do all this and his was dyno'ed at 91 and to be honest you couldnt tell it when running with him.  If 1 peson were to take it to the dragstrip and do several runs then jump on another Magna and pull several runs you might see a hundreds maybe a tenth.

There is no doubt the V&H with K&H need more fuel than the DD jets/shims are setup for and seems you are finding with larger idle & main jet offerings to find what that particular setup likes.  I plan to play with my Project 96 in the coming weeks (more like months I am lazy LoL) on tweaking it, however this set of carbs has been altered with the Dyna-jet kit so that is an entirely different set of parameters to work with... 

Too bad your in the great white tundra as I would like to see/ride your Magna to comare to the many others I have worked on to see how it compares.  Guess I could talk my son Devin into buying the V&H and setting his up with your setup LoL.

[Chad in Michigan]

Yeah it would be cool to come down there I have a few weeks off at the end of this month into next month. I'm going on a ride to PA and then after that maybe run to upstate NY to see a friend, but after that, I don't know. Maybe (if the wife lets me, lol) I could make it that way. It's probably too long of a drive though, and I only have about 4k miles with riding experiance, and this is my 1st road bike. We'll see BTW, I am going to take this to the drag strip after all is said and done. There is one down by my mom's house in Milan, MI .
I also installed (partially so far) the Pingel electric easy shift, which will be fun to use on the strip. It is basically a large solenoid that you mount to the shift lever, and there is an ignition module that cuts the coils for a split second and unloads the trans, and shifts up or down at partial or full throttle. I have all but the solenoid mounted, and tried the ign. kill box and that works great. I'll keep you updated when I dyno this thing

[TLRam1]

This is where we are at currently.

From my readings and input from Magna owners, a stock Magna needs the DD Kit.

Pilot Jets on all could stand a change to #42 but it's on the bubble and works well enough with the stock #40's installed. Personal choice, depends on how much you want to spend and how finicky you are.

I think Greg's beliefs are, Cobra exhaust does not flow as much air as V & H's and my findings are parallel with this. This is subject to change with more Cobra exhaust testing.

I believe most of these are around 500 ft above sea level. High altitude you will have to be on the leaner side.

So far it is coming down to this.
______________________________________________________________________________

Stock Filter

Stock Exhaust

DD Kit which includes

Shims – 1 (additional)

Mains #105

Pilots screws 2 ¾ - 3 Turns out.

Option - #42 Pilot Jets

__________________________________________________________________________


K & N air filter

Stock Exhaust

DD Kit which includes

Shims – 2 additional

Mains - #105

Pilots screws 2 ¾ Turns out

Option - #42 Pilot Jets

Order another set of shims from DD so you can have a total of 2 additional shims per Needle Jet.

_____________________________________________________________________________


Currently working for a MOOT Member

K & N air filter

Cobra Exhaust

DD kit which includes

Shims – 2 (additional)

Mains - #105

Pilot screws 3 Turns out

Order another set of shims from DD so you can have a total of 2 additional shims per Needle Jet.

Option,

Not tested, IMO, I think you could comfortably change the Mains to #108 Kehin Part #99101-GHB-1080

Probably should change to the #42 Pilot Jets


______________________________________________________________________________


Allen

K & N air filter

Jardine Megaphones exhaust

Shims - 1 (additional)

110 - Mains

45 - Pilots

Pilot screws - 2 3/4 turns out


With what I have done it is ALOT better almost pulls the front end up and it goes all the way to REDLINE, does it need more tweaking, yeah probably, but it is close for sure !!!!!!

Note: possible go to 42 pilot jets and lean the idle jets a 1/4 turn more.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Chad

K & N air filter

V & H exhaust

Shims – 2 (additional)

Mains – #110 or #112

Pilots - #45

Pilot screws 2 ¾ turns out

____________________________________________________________________________


This list will probably need to be tweaked as people test and try these settings but should be better than before.   

These settings are in MOOT Member bikes and actually working so they do have history behind them but might need tweaking as we become more experienced with various setups.

[TLRam1]

These settings look to get us closer to hitting the mark right the first time and having the Magna run better to boot! The #45 Pilot Jet might work in all the bikes, but without further testing I stayed on the conservative side until more is known.

Lance, you read my mind. That is what I was going to recommend if you wanted to further tune your bike, this all boils down to personal choice and it is a pain to remove the carbs, if you are satisfied as is, but in the future if you pull the bank of carbs you might consider changing your jets.

With manufacturing like it is and tolerances tight, all bikes should be so close you would not noticed a difference and the jetting that works for one should work for the next, all things being equal. As Allen states sometimes differences do show up, altitude will affect this to a large degree and what the rider perceives is a factor.

All the input from various members was great and needed to take us a step further with our tuning needs. Chad, thanks for all your input as it is time consuming to do the testing you performed. I have done the same on other bikes and it has taken months to dial it in correctly with time constraints. Spending the time and taking this up a notch is much appreciated.

As some of these settings are already in place, the more we experiment with the above and gain insight the more informed we will become and get this  more precise.   

Chad, I will re-jet to what has worked for you, it won't happen tomorrow but it will happen. Didn't mean to run you through the ringer  but I ask a lot of questions and re-ask to see what answers I receive. If there are holes or your answers don't jive up than the credibility of your answer in my mind is questioned as to whether you are "selling me" your idea or there is integrity in your answers. One of the reasons for the MPG question.    Someone says their still getting 40 MPG and "getting on it" or riding in the higher RPMs is what you might call ( no, I don't think you are being untruthful) maybe.... stretching the truth, fish story, overzealous (easy to do), or not keeping good records. Our decisions are based on what we are told so accurate info is of utmost importance. 

Looking forward to your Dyno run sheet. 

[Justin]

Hi all new to Moot here,

but i have been doing alot of research on changing the jets and the number of shims on Moot, the Magna BBS and few other sites.

My Magna is currently completely stock but that is about to change rather promptly, i have DRP's shim/jet kit but i'm almost thinking i should go up a size to 110 mains now and either 45 or 42 pilots with 2 shims.

I have a K&N air filter to go in, and i plan on doing the Stock exhaut mod#2 at the same time since i can't find Jardine exhaust anywhere.

I'd like to minimize the number of times i have to pull the carb banks as possible, since i dont have a proper shop to be doing it in and it will all be "Roadside" work

I also plan to sync the carbs when i change the jets, I built a similar Manometer to this http://www.airheads.org/content/view/183/56/ for syncing the six pack on my 350 and it worked like a charm.

so this is what i'm thinking so far

K & N air filter

Mod#2 Exhaust

Mains – #110

Shims – 2 - Stock+DRP

Pilots - #45 or #42

Pilot screws 2 ¾ turns out

I know it will probably run a little rich but you know what they say "You can always go Rich, but you only go Lean once"

And i do plan on buying some aftermarket pipes, i'm just not sure what yet. Probably Hard Krome or V&H, i really like the 4 into 4 look and i think suppertrapp only make a 4 into 2 for the magna i could be wrong, anyways i digress any suggestions would be great.

Oh yah i currently have a weird issue with starting, if the bike is cold and its been cool out it fires up right away no choke, but if its been sitting in the sun for a several hours on a nice day it wont start until i pull the choke full open and give it a little gas when i hit the starter this just started happening about a week ago now any suggestions?

[trapper]

Vapor Lock??  Wife's did it a couple of days ago

Oh yah i currently have a weird issue with starting, if the bike is cold and its been cool out it fires up right away no choke, but if its been sitting in the sun for a several hours on a nice day it wont start until i pull the choke full open and give it a little gas when i hit the starter this just started happening about a week ago now any suggestions?

[TLRam1]

I'd like to minimize the number of times i have to pull the carb banks

Justin, I know what you mean.

Same principle, measure twice and cut once. That's why I research, ask, think, research, ask before I dive in to limit my labor hours.

Why don't you wait until you get the pipes than do it all at once. Ask someone to hold a wrench session and bingo! If it is around here close I will come and rejet at the same time.

I am in the frame of mind, this is me and what I would do if I was unable to wait. I would setup my carbs as I wanted so when the pipes were installed I'd be set. Easier for someone to say, not to go this route and pull the carbs back off, but there not the ones doing the work , I am. 

Your setup looks good for where your going but I have no experience with Jardines. Based off of what Chad said I would do the #45 jets and 3 shims as I would think Jardine Drag pipes would flow well.

According to Greg, you can add shims w/o removal of carbs so you could leave them at 2 and add another later if needed. Pilots, either #42 or #45 I am sure would be fine, it's a guess at this point as these are areas some of us have not ventured into testing much, #45 I can turn-in to lean out.

I tried to compile the data in a user friend comparison for each to decide what they want to try based off of others. 

When you do whatever you do get back and let us know how it works. Now, if you can find the last pipe!

[Greg Cothern]

The Jardines drags dont flow as much as the V&H. 

[Justin]

I'll definitely let you know how it goes and my results, normally I would wait but I'm supposed to go on a road trip next weekend and I'd like to put the K&N in and modify the exhaust so i could actually hear it somewhat next to my buddies Harley's because atm I'm lucky if i can hear the engine RPM next to the 3 of them, I'm also in the process of switching the bike over to all Amsoil products which i also plan to do at the same time. 

I don't know if this has been mentioned but K&N also makes a performance oil filter for the 3rd gen Magnas thats chromed I picked it up at my local bike shop for 15$ CDN out the door which is 45$ cheaper then the OEM one from the Honda dealer and its supposed to be designed to work exceptionally well with synthetics just FYI.

Unless you happen to live close to the 69th parallel TLRAM1, I don't think ill be getting much help on my bike 

I know 3 down 1 to go thanks again for that link, i emailed the guys at East Coast Cycle Center I'm just waiting to hear back now hopefully they have a 4th jardine kicking around somewhere that they just decided not to put up on eBay for some reason.

Thanks Greg ill keep that in mind.

[TLRam1]

The Jardines drags dont flow as much as the V&H. 

Considering this, most anything you do will be new territory! Lucky you...

Justin, you mentioned CDN monies....what altitude are you at? If you are at a high altitude all of this changes.

Unless you happen to live close to the 69th Parallel

I don't know what that is, sounds like it's off NYPD.  anyway sounds too far away.

[roboto65]

Unless we are doing a road trip to Alaska we will not be meeting LOL Beautiful country up there though !!!

[Justin]

I'm as south as you can get in Canada about a hour and a bit ferry ride from Seatle, WA, and I'm at Sea Level, average temperature(at least while I'll be riding) about 10C - 30C max or 50F-90F for you imperialist 

On that note though I might go on a road trip through the Canadian Rockies this summer, if I do ill let you know how the bike performs with the change of altitude.