Apparent Regulator Failures

[Magnum Magna]

I have not gone back and read everything so this may be already said or not related.  The coworker that just got a 94 VFR his regulator just went out.  The new and improved voltage regulator for the VFR uses the frame and now has fins to dissipate the heat on the regulator. 

In his research once they over heat or run hot they are on borrowed time and will leave you on the side of the road at the worst time.  Like there is a good time to be left on the side of the road. There attempt to help the situation was to put a small computer CPU fan on the regulator. 

[Charles S Otwell]

Since I have seen quite a few bikes with the regulators exposed somewhere on the side usually, and there is ample room on the right side right behind the side cover on the Magna I think I might try it there for a while. If nothing else just to see what it will look like.. It would surely have to be cooler that far from the engine?

[Magnum Magna]

PS does anyone have a temp gauge with a remote sensor that could get some temps at the regulator while riding and while just sitting idling?

I will see if i can do that. I have a temperature probe for my voltage meter.

[Greg Cothern]

http://troybuiltmodels.com/newsite/planeacc/engines/PXTEP1.html  Here is a neat little heat gun that might work.....

[Magnum Magna]

Temperature

before start up                        Reg = 25C front of tail pipe = 25 C
3 minutes of idle                      Reg = 25C front of tail pipe = 36 C and climbing
15 minute highway drive to work Reg = 60C front of tail pipe = 101 C and stable.

25 C= 77 F
36 C= 96 F
60 C= 140 F
101 C= 213 F

[TLRam1]

If I could get a probe up to the regulator and have a way to hold it in place, I might be able to do it.

A infrared thermometer would work as Greg stated and I might have a friend who has one I could borrow. Mine does have an aluminum strap under the regulator. Don't wait on me though.

A lot of if's here.

[Jerry G Turner]

Terry I think I still have my battery box from my 94 Magna if your interested I will see if I can locate it.

[TLRam1]

Now Jerry, you are actually want me to work! I don't know how much they run but it has been more the difficulty it looks to replace. I didn't know if they all break or not so I hopefully remedied that with  a makeshift support which may cause more problems.....but it's done for now.

Thanks,I will remember you might have one though.

[lragan]

Temperature

before start up                        Reg = 25C front of tail pipe = 25 C
3 minutes of idle                      Reg = 25C front of tail pipe = 36 C and climbing
15 minute highway drive to work Reg = 60C front of tail pipe = 101 C and stable.

25 C= 77 F
36 C= 96 F
60 C= 140 F
101 C= 213 F

Well, there we have it, folks.  Great job Robert!!  

With a case temperature of 101C (and he wasn't climbing long hills on Talimena drive!) it is easy to imagine silicon junction temperatures of 160C -200C.  Most reliability studies recommend a max junction temperature in the 140C range.  Of course, this depends heavily on how the components are mounted.  Getting the potting compound out without destroying the guts is a bigger challenge than I thought, but I am working on it.

Robert, if you still have this set up, and have extra lights or other significant loads that you can turn on or off, it would be interesting to see the effect of doing so.  My prediction is that the temperature will go up when you turn them off.  If you don't have them behind a switch where this is easy, then don't bother.  Having to stop and disconnect stuff is not only way too much trouble, but introduces uncertainty into the measurements.

Definitely need some mod to increase airflow over the rectifier/regulator module.  So far, I have seen:

1) Mount a computer muffin fan adjacent to move some air across it.
2) Modify the side panels to include slots or fins near the front.
3) Mount some type of scoop that pulls in air from under the bike.
4) Remount the rectifier/regulator module on the side of the bike against the frame.

Any others?

[Magnum Magna]

I have one set of driving lights.  If I ride it into work tomorrow (weather permitting) I will use the lights.  I will see if the temperature of the regulator is different.  I will measure the case temperature also next time. I measured the regulator at the base of the fins touching the regulator.  I measured the temperature not as riding but as soon as I got off the bike left it idling took off the side cover and then measured.   

2) Modify the side panels to include slots or fins near the front.
3) Mount some type of scoop that pulls in air from under the bike.

  Be careful not to have to mush positive air flow and blow off your side covers.

[Magnum Magna]

Temperature

before start up                        Reg = 25C front of tail pipe = 25 C
3 minutes of idle                      Reg = 25C front of tail pipe = 36 C and climbing
15 minute highway drive to work Reg = 60C front of tail pipe = 101 C and stable.

25 C= 77 F
36 C= 96 F
60 C= 140 F
101 C= 213 F

To many variables for a conclusive conclusion but today with driving lights on. 

Regulator 58C = 136F
rear of case 51C = 123F

[TLRam1]

Can you do a check with your running lights off?

What total wattage are your lights?

[lragan]

Unless there was a dramatic change in the weather to the cool side, leaving your lights on is the easiest "fix" to the overtemperature regulator problem.  That is a big difference!  I have seen curves that indicate a factor of 10 improvement in mean time to failure with a 10 degree Centigrade decrease in junction temperature, so this much difference will be huge.

I learned something else from this thread.  DMM's with thermocouple inputs are not all that expensive, and I have always wanted a thermocouple set up, soooooo yesterday I ordered a DMM with thermocouple inputs and two thermocouples.

My hope is to mount a thermocouple under one of the mounting bolts against the case, put the meter in my tank bag to hold it in place so I can read it, ride a ways, turn the lights on, etc.... anyway you get the idea -- a real time comparison with and without lights.

We shall see.   More later...

[L J VFR]

Charles, to answer your question about problems with r/r on 2000 and later models... I will say no, not yet... My bike is a 2001 with 12000 miles on it.  Anyone else have problems on a "newer" model yet??  Or is it all on bikes with some "age" on them??

[guywheatley]

I got Maggie put back together and running again. I got a used regulator for $25.00. I had to change out the plugs. Like Charles mentioned,  there is an extra green (ground) wire on the Magna. I just combined the two green wires on the  Magna plug onto the single green wire coming from my used regulator.
One potential problem actually presented an opportunity. The case that the battery and tools sit in  had one of the brackets for the mounting screw broken off.



I'd already mounted the regulator.  As you can see in the photo, I attaced a wire to one of the mounting bolts. I was going to use this as a case ground.



I tried to reattach the original screw bracket using an expoy designed for hard plastics. It broke the first time I put pressure on it. So, I decided  to make another bracket. It occurred to me that if I made it out of conductive metal, and attached it to one of the regulator mounting bolts,  well you get the idea. Case ground.




Here it is mounted.



From the battery case side.



I put her back together and fired her up. I get a steady 14 volts, at any rpm. Cool.
The last thing was the battery. Charles told me to at least try charging the old one before buying a new one. When I started to charge it, I discovered that the battery acid had been boiled out. I keep and old battery around for a core exchange. When I need a battery, I'd just grab the old one and exchange it before having to pull the bad one out of my vehicle. I drained the acid out of my core battery, ran it through a coffee filter and dumped it in my dry bike battery. I checked it before I even stuck the charger to it and wha-la. 12 volt by just replacing the electrolyte.
I put her back together and took her around the block. We'll see how she holds up over the next few weeks.
Hanging out with the MOOT guys is paying off. Before that, I'd have just hauled it to the Honda place. $150.00 for a regulator, $50.00 for a battery. Who knows how much for the case. Say $50.00. $250 for parts, another $250 labor plus tax and I'm over $500.
Instead, $25.00 for a used regulator. I like this way better.