HELP!!!

[slarson]

OK, now I've done it. I was doing a routine oil change on my 95 VF750C when I ran into a big problem. I changed the oil filter, no problem. I took out the oil pan bolt, and it came out kind of funny, turning easily, then tightening up a bit, then easily, etc. until it was almost out, and then it came out with my fingers just fine. I drained the oil and checked the washer and bolt, and they appeared to be fine. When I put the bolt back in, it went in finger tight to just about the end, so I got the wrench to tighten it. This is where the problem started. It started to tighten up, then gave way, like it was stripped. I took it back out, and sure enough, there were strippings of the pil pan material (aluminum?) in the threads of the bolt. I didn't do anything differently than the 5 other times I've changed the oil. Anyway, that's where I am now. Bolt will tighten a little better than finger tight, and that's it. HELP!!! Do I need to take the bottom of the oil pan off (it looks like it has about 8 bolts holding it in place) and take it to a welding shop and see if they can put something in the hole with some new threads (Is this called a heliarc?), or do I have to try to find a new bottom to the oil pan ($$$)? Not even sure if I can find one of them. Is it also possible that it could be fixed while connected to the bike? I hate to break the seal on the oil pan (afraid of leaks in the future).

Steve

[Gloveberg]

What you need is called a helicoil.  Basically you drill out the existing threads, tap the hole and install the helicoil which is the new threads.  I imagine you could do it on the bike without pulling the pan but that might be tricky because you run the risk of getting filings or shavings in the pan plus you need to drill the old threads out straight.  I read about a guy that recently had to do this same procedure and he said it was no big deal.  Just pull the pan and any machine shop can do the helicoil.  If you were closer I'd be happy to do it for you since I do them at work all the time.  You will need a new gasket but those are cheap.

Do you use a torque wrench when tightening the oil drain bolt?

[slarson]

Gloveberg,
No, I don't use a torque wrench. I have one, but I don't know the torque specs. I don't think I over-torqued it this time. I think it might have been something I did when taking it out or putting it in. Maybe it wasn't threaded straight, but it went in really easily with my fingers all the way to snug. I guess I'll take off the pan tonight and take it to someone on Monday. I don't suppose the dealership will have a gasket in stock. Do I put anything on the gasket or just put it on dry? Thanks for the help. At least I know I don't have to spend the $138 for a new one that I found. BTW, what should it cost to have this done, just so I know?

Steve

[Gloveberg]

Steve, you said it came out funny so it probably happened the last time you tightened it and showed itself when you took it out.  I doubt the dealership would have the gasket in stock so they will probably have to order one but you never know.  I would just use some plain gasket sealer on the new gasket.  My service manual doesn't give a torque spec for the oil pan bolts but the oil drain bolt is 25 ft lbs.

I really can't tell you what the helicoil installation would cost but it can't be much because the whole job shouldn't take more than 15 minutes based on my experience.

Jimmy

[slarson]

Jimmy,
Thanks for all your help. I got the pan off. A little easier said than done. 11 of the 12 bolts were pretty easy. The 12th was a bear. On the right side, had to take off the peg and brake pedal, then was just barely able to get an open end 10mm wrench on it and get it to break loose. The others were easy, able to use a socket with them. Frame got in the way of the 12th. Monday, I'll take it to a machine shop so its done right. Actually, puting it all back together could be interesting. I need some smaller fingers, or need to move the frame over a little. lol  The gasket looks really good, but I know better than to use it again. I probably need to be careful getting it off, huh? Should use a plastic scraper, maybe? I know that metal is soft. Wow, 25 lbs. That's not much. I guess I'll try the dealership. They're open tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see how they compare to MCmart.com ($8.69 for the gasket and $.49 for a new drain bolt gasket).

Thanks again,

Steve

I'll try to post when I get done so others can laugh, I mean, learn from my mistake.

[slarson]

Jimmy,
Just realized that you relpied to a post I did just the other day on my brakes. Thanks for the ideas there, too, and to Roboto and Greg. I have a lot of things to try. I suppose all of this would be easier with a manual. Do you have one you can recommend?

Steve

[Gloveberg]

Jimmy,  I suppose all of this would be easier with a manual. Do you have one you can recommend?

Steve

Steve, a Magna owner in Norway was kind enough to host for download both the Honda Common Service Manual and the VF750C Service Manual.  Both can be found here:

http://www.vidoweb.com/download.php?lng=en

They are in PDF form so what I did was download them, print them out and put them in a binder.  The files are about 9megs each and then they print out over 300 pages so it's kind of a pain but they have been great for me.

[Gloveberg]

The gasket looks really good, but I know better than to use it again. I probably need to be careful getting it off, huh? Should use a plastic scraper, maybe? I know that metal is soft.

You're right it's always better to replace the gasket even though it looks good.  Better safe than sorry.  Just carefully scrape the old one off, use a little gasket sealer and then the new gasket.  Like I said, I could not find any torque value for the pan bolts but it you go too tight you will deform the gasket and then you will have leaks.  I would just tighten in a cross pattern until they were all uniformly tight.

[Grumpy]

For next time this comes up.  A friend brought her Harley over one day. Some ham fisted mechanic wannabe at her local Hog Pen had cross threaded the drain plug causing an unstoppable drip, drip, drip of 50 Wt.  I removed the plug, let all the oil run out into a pan, then went to an auto parts store where I bought a universal replacement oil pan drain plug... of the self tapping type. It was a bit larger than the pigcycle original hole, so I very carefully reamed out the hole with an appropriate size bit, turned slowly, then screwed the self-tapping replacement drain plug into the hole. I filled the engine (this one was a "wet sump" model) with some take out oil I'd test run for 1000 mi in a GoldWing... turned the engine over enough to shake up the oil (not much required), then drained it again to get rid of any metal chips or shavings from reaming the drain hole. Then I filled the engine with her Willie G approved 50wt dino juice... no leaks.... I had to check again to be sure... it did have oil in it... still no leaks... she was a happy Oinker rider...        Grumpy

[slarson]

Thanks, Grumpy. I had thought of that, but was worried about the shavings, you know, when you do something and then just continue to make it worse as you try other things. It would be just like me to leave a filing or 10 in there and screw up the engine just to do an oil change. A friend said he did this with a Harley, too and it worked fine. Hopefully, there won't be a next time. I am thinking about going to synthetic next oil change and then I'll really see if I have any leaks.

Steve