Shindengen Regulator

[TLRam1]

Shindengen SH538D-13

Is this the company who mfg the Honda OEM Reg.?

[lragan]

Terry, I don't know how I would tell, except to "de-pot" one of each and examine the innards. 

I think you are asking if they are the same design.  It is quite common for a manufacturer to build a proprietary design for a company of Honda's size, and also build their own designs.  In this case, unless they put their name on the product somewhere, it is virtually impossible to tell that Honda is not the actual manufacturer of the part.

When I started a contract design house to do radio frequency integrated circuits, most of our work was for major semiconductor manufacturers, who inevitably had a secrecy clause in the contract -- we still can't say who they are or what we designed for them.  Not sure why they did this, but it didn't matter to us, as long as we got paid...

[TLRam1]

The guy selling these said they are OEM, apparently who makes Honda's. I thought Allen alluded to this once also, I will do a search on the forum, I understand even if they did make Honda's the specs might be different on their units. Can you take yours off and look for me Lawrence? 

He sells these for 119 + 7-8 shipping, Honda OEM are 142 + shipping, I will have to buy something, the 20 dollars isn't a big deal but curious if these are one in the the same.     

[TLRam1]

A couple of references, one you made Lawrence.

http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=3015.msg27732#msg27732


http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=2167.msg17940#msg17940

[lragan]

Yes, and yet with all the writing, hand wringing, conversation, and impressions, there is still no real statistical data to help make a choice.  There may be something going on here besides heat, and possibly, method of stopping the engine.  Why do some bikes seem to eat regulators for breakfast, and others never experience a problem?  Maybe Greg C is onto something with his survey regarding how we kill the engines on our bikes.  I hope so.  This is a very puzzling phenomenon.

[Jamtndll]

Dave Shireman found some today for 99 and 104.  I am thinking about purchasing one for me to take on the Colorado trip just in case.  I will not be with group 4 days.  If something happens to mine then I will be glad I have it.  I am also thinking of doing the conversion we talked about at MOOTMag before I leave also.

[Len Averyt]

I did find some info on the regulators.
I know Lawrence will see the issue to this schematic.
The units, including the one the magna uses are what I would call a shunt type "regulator"
The regulator "regulates" by dumping the excess voltage as heat. Not a good thing when heat is already a problem.
So as long as an electrical system is using a large quantity of the power generated, then the less power the regulator dumps as heat.
So it makes sense that if a battery cell failed and opened up, Then a large quantity of power would have to be dumped.

Any bad connections would be a really bad thing.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[TLRam1]

Does anyone have a regulator out of the bike they can measure, preferably in inches and MM, but either I can convert.

Someone checked clearance for adding a fan, can you chime in again with those numbers, if not I will try a search on the forum. 

Looking at something like this.
http://www.sunonusa.com/index2.asp?f=news&p=pr_weatherfan

[lragan]

Terry,

The dimensions are 3.106X3.521X1.102 inches.  See attached pics .  The distance between holes is 2.664 inches.

I looked (hard) at this option. When I mounted the whole system under the battery box, there was, in my opinion, not enough clearance to the swing arm.  I pictured going over a cattle guard at my normal pace and smashing the fan to smithereens!  I did not actually measure the swing arm deflection, it was only an estimate.

Also part of my consideration was the weather resistance of the cheap fan I bought at Fry's.  Had I been confident in the ruggedness of the fan, I might have gone through the numbers with the weight, spring constants, etc. and tried to come up with numbers for clearance.

Sorry for the out of focus pic of the assembly.  I know longer have it, so couldn't manage a "do-over".

Let me know if you work this out...

[attachment deleted by admin]

[lragan]

I did find some info on the regulators.
I know Lawrence will see the issue to this schematic.
The units, including the one the magna uses are what I would call a shunt type "regulator"
The regulator "regulates" by dumping the excess voltage as heat. Not a good thing when heat is already a problem.
So as long as an electrical system is using a large quantity of the power generated, then the less power the regulator dumps as heat.
So it makes sense that if a battery cell failed and opened up, Then a large quantity of power would have to be dumped.

Any bad connections would be a really bad thing.

Lyn, I thought the extra load of my running lights would drop the temperature substantially, but it did not.  See my post #57 at:

http://www.magnaownersoftexas.com/forums/index.php?topic=2167.45

I was surprised, as I thought, like you did, that I would see a large drop in temperature.  The change was well withing the normal variance due to speed, wind, etc. 

I suspect that phasing of the switching gets involved here somehow.  The stator is inductive, so the current is not in phase with the voltage.

The charging system in automobiles uses an alternator with a field coil, so the regulation is with feedback to this coil, and extra current is not generated.  I imagine this is actually less expensive than the fixed magnets in the Magna alternator, and that the choice was made to keep Maggie's alternator small.

Your point about battery failure triggering regulator failure is well taken.  I had just assumed the failures were in the other direction -- the regulator failed and overcharged the battery.  Your point about an open connection also seems correct.

It seems to me that someone talented in charging system design could design a switching regulator, with series elements that would switch on at a point in the cycle sufficient to provide the average current required, and would switch off when the a-c current went through zero (to avoid the inductive spike), that would be much more efficient.  I am still not sure if such a unit would survive the harsh environment behind the engine, be competitive in price, or sell enough to pay for the effort.

[Chad in Michigan]

I know the VFR also suffers from regulator failure. Electrosport made a heavy duty version and a different heat sink design. it is similiar to the magna, but no wires coming from it, looks like it needs a plug. maybe we could connect wires to it somehow? it's $99 bucks too. here's a link.

http://www.electrosport.com/products/product-detail-1832.php

[Len Averyt]

Your point about battery failure triggering regulator failure is well taken.  I had just assumed the failures were in the other direction -- the regulator failed and overcharged the battery.  Your point about an open connection also seems correct.

The bad thing is that you really don't know which caused the other. it could go both ways.
Battery died causing regulator failure.
OR
regulator failed causing battery failure.

I have looked at making a unit that doesn't shunt the excess to ground as heat. What I and a friend of mine worry about is the unused energy. What happens to the stator coils if the energy isn't being used? does there become a point where high voltages cause a corona efect and breakdown the insulation?

[Charles S Otwell]

Just a question, but do the Magna regulators never go out during cooler weather or do the guys up North never have R/R problems?

[TLRam1]

Terry,

The dimensions are 3.106X3.521X1.102 inches.  See attached pics .  The distance between holes is 2.664 inches.

I looked (hard) at this option. When I mounted the whole system under the battery box, there was, in my opinion, not enough clearance to the swing arm.  I pictured going over a cattle guard at my normal pace and smashing the fan to smithereens!  I did not actually measure the swing arm deflection, it was only an estimate.

Also part of my consideration was the weather resistance of the cheap fan I bought at Fry's.  Had I been confident in the ruggedness of the fan, I might have gone through the numbers with the weight, spring constants, etc. and tried to come up with numbers for clearance.

Sorry for the out of focus pic of the assembly.  I know longer have it, so couldn't manage a "do-over".

Let me know if you work this out...

Thanks for finding that for me Lawrence.

This has caught me at a bad time. What needs to happen is remove the shocks & rear wheel to measure easily the clearance between swingarm and the regulator, I don't know if I have the time to go through the process for this than locate a waterproof fan to fit. I researched more last night for fans to find out more search and calling of companys is needed to verify what it is they sell.

[Greg Cothern]

Charles so far on the poll I posted they have all been during the summer heat..