Well first off, want to wish everyone a happy thanksgiving. The turkey part of the post. ha ha
I'll be changing my sprockets and chain on turkey day. Got a pretty good deal on the set off Ebay.
Item title: Honda VF750C Magna/Deluxe 1994-04 Chain/Sprocket Set
Seller User ID: sledpartsguy
Total: $126.96, shipping included
I bought this Saturday night and received it today, I was suprised at how fast it was shipped.
The kit comes with a Factory 2.5:1 Ratio sprocket set.
16 Tooth Drive
40 Tooth Driven
118 Links of 530 UO (KMC) brand o-ring chain
1 master link
Quality looks good on the parts. Guess time will tell. Anyone used this brand chain before?
[attachment deleted by admin]
Clip master link or bradded?
Curtis
Unfortunatly a clip type.
I'll put it on the right way.
Wonder if it can be bradded?
It came with orings and a pack of grease.
Quote from: Len Averyt on November 27, 2008, 12:18:29 AM
Unfortunately a clip type.
I'll put it on the right way.
Wonder if it can be bradded?
OK... Let's have this discussion...
I do understand that a clip type "could" come apart and that you put the clip so if it hits anything as it goes round it forces the clip on, instead of off. BUT, it also gives the advantage of being able to fairly easily remove the chain for maintenance.
What other factors am I missing???
I have a Bradded type and it is the one spot in my chain that tends not to flex easily giving me a tight spot.. I don't think that would happen with a clip type, and if it did, I could easily take it apart and clean and lube it and eliminate the issue.
Do clip types wear faster than Bradded because it doesn't hold as tightly? (weak spot in the chain?)
Has anyone had the experience of a clip type coming apart (when you didn't want it to?)
Thanx in advance for your thoughts/concerns.
I've only ever used the clip type links on my chains, and have only had the clips come off twice, on my existing chain.
This was due to faulty install by ME, and once I saw the mistake I fixed it.
The link is in there pretty tight, with the plate squeezed onto the pins of the link.
They are a bear to put on and take off. They have to be pressed on with quite a bit of force.
Lucky for me, the plate did not come off when the clip did, and I had to press the plate off anyway to break the chain.
It's an ideal setup, as you say, to remove the chain (during winter storage) to clean, inspect for damage, and lube.
I did not get the staked link for the simple reason that the Honda teck said they install them with a hammer and solid steel object in behind to mash it all together. Not very professional or safe in any case. There are specifications on the size and depth the pin has to be deformed in order to hold the side plate on, and I don't know of anyone anywhere that has aluded to this fact on any of these sites!
I have always staked mine but I also have the tool as for the specs on how far it should be crimped it is in the manual but I always crimp the c#$% out of it and that had held so far Felicia had the KBC brand and I had a staked link here at the house and it worked perfect want to say it was a DID link :grin: :grin:
Quote from: hootmon on November 27, 2008, 07:08:10 AM
I have a Bradded type and it is the one spot in my chain that tends not to flex easily giving me a tight spot..
It was installed wrong, plain and simple. If done right they don't bind. As Magnagregcan alluded to, even the Honda techs take "unprofessional" short cuts sometimes.
Curtis
Quote from: Curtis_Valk on November 27, 2008, 09:19:24 AM
If done right they don't bind. Curtis
But if it does, there is little you can do about it.. Any other negatives about a clip type?
Quote from: magnagregcan on November 27, 2008, 08:35:41 AM
Lucky for me, the plate did not come off when the clip did, and I had to press the plate off anyway to break the chain.
Wow, how did you know the clip was missing? Pre-ride inspection?
Quote from: magnagregcan on November 27, 2008, 08:35:41 AM
I did not get the staked link for the simple reason that the Honda teck said they install them with a hammer and solid steel object in behind to mash it all together. Not very professional or safe in any case. There are specifications on the size and depth the pin has to be deformed in order to hold the side plate on, and I don't know of anyone anywhere that has aluded to this fact on any of these sites!
Wise decision. Even though I'm of the staked masterlink camp I would rather have a properly installed clip type than an improperly installed staked master link. I have been party to the pin deformation spec discussion either here or on MRF ...........or maybe it was at a wrench session when we were staking the masterlink with a chain tool.
Curtis
Quote from: hootmon on November 27, 2008, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Curtis_Valk on November 27, 2008, 09:19:24 AM
If done right they don't bind. Curtis
But if it does, there is little you can do about it.. Any other negatives about a clip type?
Sure there is ..........buy a new master, grind/press the old one off and install the new one correctly (clip or staked, I'm leaving the choice to whomever).
Any other negatives??? :shock: The
ONE about the chain coming off is enough to tip the scales for me. That's my personal choice though and I'll not try to tell anyone what is right for them. Of course, both my bikes have shaft drive (doesn't stop me from spouting my opinion though ha ha ha ha).
The way I see it, there are three possible outcomes when you throw a chain. 1. The chain spits out the back and goes sliding harmlessly toward the side of the road (whew). 2. The chain wraps around the driven sprocket (potentially catastrophic to your health and welfare, definately time for new BVDs). 3. The chain binds in the area of the front sprocket (potentially catastrophic to the mechanical integrity of your final drive, depending on the bike's construction a busted engine case can result).
To me, not worth the risk however small that I'll "snooze" the proper installation of the clip. I have known myself to make simple mistakes at times.
Curtis
Quote from: Curtis_Valk on November 27, 2008, 09:38:58 AM
buy a new master, grind/press the old one off and install the new one correctly (clip or staked, I'm leaving the choice to whomever).
Any other negatives??? :shock: The ONE about the chain coming off is enough to tip the scales for me. To me, not worth the risk however small that I'll "snooze" the proper installation of the clip. I have known myself to make simple mistakes at times.
I remember my dad, being an old Air Force mechanical guy, took a small piece of wire and wrapped it around the masterlink holding the clip in place. It never seemed to wear because of the sprocket rub.. Just a thought..
Since I have 20+K on my chain.. I don't think I'll go through the trouble of working on the masterlink at this point..
Where do you get just masterlinks from anywayz...
I haven't had it on for a long time (maybe 6 months), but the EK screw type master link that I used on Baby Vee was the easiest thing to put on. It runs about $ 16.00. Nice and clean.
Hoot,
QuoteWhere do you get just masterlinks from anywayz...
I'm sure any vendor who handles chains can get just the master link.
Going back to one of your earlier comments:
QuoteDo clip types wear faster than Bradded because it doesn't hold as tightly? (weak spot in the chain?)
All the clip does is hold the side rail of the master link in place, same as staking. The load bearing surfaces are the pins, so if each design is of equal quality there should be no difference in strength or wear characteristics.
Referring back to your comments on chain maintenance, there may have been an advantage to removing the chain before o-ring chains were invented. Old style chains needed lube to "soak in" to get to the wear surfaces inside where the pins go through the links. An old school method was to buy two chains and keep one soaking in 90 wt oil then swap them out periodically. A clip type master link was definately necessary to use this method of increasing chain life.
Now that we have permanently lubricated o-ring type chains, the only thing to be done is to keep the chain clean and rust free. No amount of lubing will get any lubricant past the o-rings where the main wear surfaces are. By the same token though, the factory lube that is inside the o-rings should stay in for the life of the chain. O-ring chains can be harmed by solvents which swell, soften or otherwise degrade the integrity of the o-ring seal however, so be careful what you clean with. All of the discussion on what lube to use or what method (auto-oilers, etc) are pretty much secondary since all they are accomplishing is to keep the outside of the chain rust free. If allowed to rust or get extremely gritty, the area where the plates contact (which is a wear area but not load bearing) can get galled or "sticky" and your chain will go thump thump as the stiff link tries to bend around the sprocket.
Lucky for everyone I'm tired of typing and it's time to go eat some turkey!!
Curtis
Curtis, thanks for the explanation. Understanding it leaves me less worried about using "chain wax" instead of the Honda recommended 90W oil.
I presume the O-rings are Neoprene? Knowing the composition will help in choosing a cleaner. I have been using diesel fuel, just because it is handy and leaves an oily film.
I'm almost more concerned about the quality of the chain itself than the master link.
Seems like most recommendations I've read elsewhere lean toward DID brand chain. Which is what is on the magna right now.
QuoteI haven't had it on for a long time (maybe 6 months), but the EK screw type master link that I used on Baby Vee was the easiest thing to put on. It runs about $ 16.00. Nice and clean.
I would like to change to ether the staked or this screw type.
Where did you find the EK screw type.
What worries me is mixing brands. I'm sure "most" chain is identical but i would guess some difference from manufacturer to manufacturer could cause a faster wear area or a weaker spot? just a few thousands of an inch difference from brand to brand could cause this.
Quote from: Len Averyt on November 27, 2008, 12:14:48 PM
What worries me is mixing brands. I'm sure "most" chain is identical but i would guess some difference from manufacturer to manufacturer could cause a faster wear area or a weaker spot? just a few thousands of an inch difference from brand to brand could cause this.
Len, I believe motorcycle chain manufactured to ISO10190 should be have compatible components -- tolerances, hardness, tensile strength, etc. are specified. I would not worry about "mixing and matching" if the components you purchase meet the standard -- they should all fit and work together.
Well as soon as I finish gobbling up gobbler :) I'll be out there doing the chain.
I'm looking forward to see how smooth a new chain rides. I got the bike with 12.5K on it and now the OEM chain has 29K on it with significant wear on the drive sprocket. Lots of chain noise when the lube wears thin.
I have kept it lubricated fairly well but the wear in the links and sprockets have me all the way at maximum adjustment.
BTW the chain is only ISO-9001 Certified doesnt show ISO10190 anywhere on the box. I'll check the manufacturer web site.
QuoteI believe motorcycle chain manufactured to ISO10190 should be have compatible components -- tolerances, hardness, tensile strength, etc
Not necessarily I have had chains with different shaft diameter so one may fit but another may not DID may differ from EK and so on and so on we ran in to at Charles when we did my chain up there also some staked masterlinks have a hole in the end so the chain tool can mushroom it out.
While some have a flat end looks solid this one gets crushed also but it looks more like the stock chain did with four indentations around it not mushroomed like the it,s counterpart. I have also seen Oring chains with a clip type masterlink!!!
Quote from: Len Averyt on November 27, 2008, 02:48:10 PM
BTW the chain is only ISO-9001 Certified doesnt show ISO10190 anywhere on the box. I'll check the manufacturer web site.
ISO 9001 is about business practices -- not chain specifications, so Allen is right on, you may run into installation difficulties with parts from different manufacturers.
The staked link I put in mine was of the solid type, and showed the four indentations on the edge of the post. It would be very difficult, now that it is installed, to distinguish it from all the regular links -- except for the marking on the side plate, I don't think you could tell...
Allen, if the link installs without difficulty, is there a problem because it comes from a different manufacturer? Are there tolerance issues here?
Quote from: lragan on November 27, 2008, 11:41:55 AM
I presume the O-rings are Neoprene? Knowing the composition will help in choosing a cleaner. I have been using diesel fuel, just because it is handy and leaves an oily film.
Lawrence, I don't know the composition of most o-rings. Diesel is my favorite solvent; it is cheap enough to use in quantity, is not harmful to most materials, has a high flash point to make it safe and like you say it leaves behind an oily film so stuff you just cleaned doesn't begin to rust before you can apply some lube or rust preventative. Maybe I'll put it in my coffee instead of MEK!! :shock: :grin: :cool:
Curtis
My step dad used to add a little diesel to a tank of gasoline occasionally -- claimed it helped keep the carburetors clean.
Seemed dubious to me at the time, but it was just one of many little tricks he used around the ranch. Looking back, his equipment ran reliably for decades, so he had to have been doing something right!
QuoteAllen, if the link installs without difficulty, is there a problem because it comes from a different manufacturer? Are there tolerance issues here?
No I would think not now if it sloppy loose in there yeah for sure but that goes without saying if it is too tight well it is not going to fit it is pretty much a go nogo type thing!!! Hope everyone had a great Turkey day I got home from work just in time to spend some time with the family !!!!
Well got it all on today. I'll take it for a spin tomarrow.
I figured the easiest way to get the old chain off was to cut it in two using a die grinder. Took about 5 minutes and the chain was severed.
Cleaned up everything, lube the spline shaft and replaced the front sprocket. Rear sprocket was a piece of cake.
Connecting the new chain was a bit fun but not bad. used the provided lube to pack the masterlink. Put the masterlink togeather and snapped the clip in.
Adjusted the chain tension and locked everything down.
In the morning I'll lube the whole chain and take it for a ride.
Follow up.
I got to ride it to work Wendsday and it was great to not hear the chain noise. Felt like there was considerably less slack jerk.
Weather fooled me though.... Was a cold ride home that night. :shock:
Yep, it was cold Wednesday evening. I was sitting in that howling wind in a friend's back yard from 8:30 to 10:30 with my pistol waiting for a possum to come out of his attic. We spied his mate up on the roof, but he gave us the slip.
Curtis
Why were you waiting for the Possum to come out? You had the gun, why didn't you go in after it? :D :D
Quote from: Charles S Otwell on December 05, 2008, 11:45:51 PM
Why were you waiting for the Possum to come out? You had the gun, why didn't you go in after it? :D :D
I like the way Charles thinks as long as I'm not the one going. :twisted::-P I did this with a rodent, came out in the garage and shot it.
So is he still up there?
Quote from: Charles S Otwell on December 05, 2008, 11:45:51 PM
Why were you waiting for the Possum to come out? You had the gun, why didn't you go in after it? :D :D
Long story Charles, actually my part of this saga has been unfolding for days. My buddy Troy has been contending with them for months, even having one die up there and stink up his house. First I loaned him my live trap but nothing would get in it. He knew it (they) were up there since him and his wife were regularly woken up in the night by the noise of possum activity. Finally on Tuesday of this week I went over to try to find where they were getting in and out because Troy had not been able to. We found the hole under a soffit where a lower tier of shingles goes up to meet it (the builder didn't go high enough with the decking, allowing the shingles to sag right up in the corner). This is one of those nightmare fancy roofs with all of the facets and shapes that I would hate to have to roof. Anyhow.........we got up in the attic and plugged the hole with some plywood, joking that we hoped we weren't locking the thing inside.
Troy treated me to supper at Crazy Catfish and then I went home. Got a phone call a few minutes later from Troy and he said that the possum was inside and sounding very angry. I gathered up my battery powered spot light and the most suitable firearm, my son's single action pistol in 22 rimfire stoked with low power Aguilla Colibri loads (less than 400 fps and very quiet). My plan was to spotlight the critter and get close enough to pop a head shot at point blank range since Troy's wife and kids would be in the house. Safety first you know. The possum turned out to be more wily than I thought and would not appear until we had stood motionless for about thirty minutes. We were close to the exit hole (still stopped) and I knew that's where he would go so when I heard him come close, I flipped on my spotlight. Well, he looked into that light for a split second and then he split. Remember the part about the nighmare, multifaceted roof? Well, there's vaulted ceilings throughout the house too so you can imagine what the attic looked like. Too many hiding places for the possum.
Implement "Plan B". We decided to just open the hole and monitor from outside until he left, then go up and stop the hole again. It worked like a charm and in about an hour I was headed home and Troy and his family were free from his critter. Problem is, Troy was soon to discover that there was more than one. This brings us to Wednesday evening with the wind whipping and the temperature dropping. Our plan this time was to open the hole to let the inside possum out while staking out the back Yard near the hole to verify that he left and also to prevent the second possum from entering again if he was still in the area, a good possibility if this was a mating pair. Well, the outside possum did come around, but Troy was the only one to see it and when it saw him it left the area.
Meanwhile, the inside possum either scented or heard the outside possum because he went berserk in there! Problem was he had made it all the way across the utility room ceiling and was now in the attic to the semidetached garage about as far away from the original hole as possible. I heard him growling, squealing and generally raising cain inside the soffit at one of the vent grills. That gave me an idea: if we pulled the soffit grill then he could drop down on top of the trash wagon and then to the ground. Unless he could climb the brick and then reach way out to grasp the opening, that should be a one way ticket out of the attic. We removed the grill and called it quits for the night.
Thursday evening, Troy called to tell me that the possum had not found the opening and was now on the
other end of the house over the master bath. Evidently he had gotten somewhere he couldn't get out of because Troy said they could hear him climbing and then sliding back down over and over. I got pretty concerned since I knew that possum had been up there for at least 48 hours without water and now seemed to be going into panic mode. If he died somewhere we couldn't find him that would be about the worst possible outcome. I told Troy to go outside by the bedroom and pull all of the grills from the soffit vents in that immediate area. I'm sure the thing would drop to the ground as bad as it wants out.
That brings the possum adventure up to the present. I have not heard from Troy yet, so I don't know if he still has extra residents. Hopefully not.
Curtis
You are hereby rechristened from "Curtis_Valk" to "Possum_hunter".
We will expect you to use your new signature henceforth... :cool:
How was the possum getting up to the roof hole in the first place, climbing the side of the house?
I don't know the mating habits of the Possum, but if there were two then there could be more soon if not already. Maybe he could bait the exit hole to draw it out. Harbor freight has their night vision monoculars on for $199.00 since they are noturnal maybe Curtis you could camp out in the attic and and---- this is getting good keep us posted on the ongoing saga :D..
Curtis is in his element. :-P
I had a squirrel running around an Attic in a house I was renting.. I wound up shooting the squirrel with a pellet gun, and he fell down in the eve of the roof line along the soffet.. I could not reach him...
My friend and I were up in the Attic a little later..
I said.. Hey dude, remember that squirrel that was running around up here?
He said.. Yeah,
I said.. Look down there in the eve
He said.. Is he dead?
I said.. Ain't moved in a week, I think so
My friend almost had to clean out his pants from laughing so hard...
(you might of had to been there and know my friend, to appreciate the reaction)
Quote from: TLRam1 on December 06, 2008, 11:26:12 AM
How was the possum getting up to the roof hole in the first place, climbing the side of the house?
Tree
Quote from: hootmon on December 06, 2008, 02:02:22 PM
I had a squirrel running around an Attic in a house I was renting.. I wound up shooting the squirrel
Yeah a few years back I shot a young one in my attic with a 22 rifle. He wound up in a pot of dumplin's. I think that may have been what Len meant about "in my element". Once this possum thing is over maybe I'll invite Dave and some of the other local guy over for supper! :shock:
Curtis
A seven course meal, eh?
Possum and a six-pack.
QuoteYeah a few years back I shot a young one in my attic with a 22 rifle. He wound up in a pot of dumpin's.
No way, no how am I eating possum! Ewwwwwww. :shock:
If economic trends continue in their current direction and pace, possum may look real attractive in a few months...
Actually the squirrel tasted pretty good, but my dumplin's leave a lot to be desired! :?
Curtis