'94 bottom end oil leak

[hootmon]

I'm not really expecting an answer (at least not yet), but thought I would start a thread and update as things progress..

I went out in the garage today and when I backed the bike up, to my surprise there was a quarter sized spot of oil on the ground... It looks like I've developed an oil leak somewhere on the bottom of the motor. It does not appear to be the drain plug or the oil filter... So much for keeping it simple..

Let me know if any of you have seen anything like this before and what the known cause for a leak down low to be.. I've never seen anything posted, so like I said, I'm not expecting an answer at this time..

It should be interesting to investigate, as it's hard to see that low down, and if I put it up on the lift, the lift MAY be in the way of seeing what I need to see... Hummm

Here are two not very helpful pictures -

The shot is from the left side of the bike, the drain plug is to the right and the rear of the bike is to the left, with the left exhaust at the bottom of the picture

[TLRam1]

Yeah I have seen this, looks real familiar to what I had, racking my brain....wrong bike though.

I am sure you have thought of this already......Spray wash the underside well, clean it up and look where the oil is coming from once the motor is clean. We could give you several items to check but it may be hard to nail down with grudge on the motor.

I have had leaks & seen from various seals, Counter shaft, shift rod, breather tube, over fill of oil, too much head pressure/blow by, etc. Air breather boxes with oil in that leaks out.

[Cannon]

This one allways works; put a sheet of clean cardboard or paper under the bike with the engine warmed up. Leave it overnight, and inspect the source of leakage without moving the bike.     

[roboto65]

Might also dare I say clean it and check for a crack. I did have one that had a crack in the oilpan and the PO had JBed it and it was leaking so i had to either redo it or replace the pan well JBed it LOL.   

[Chad in Michigan]

there is a picture of the water pump - there is a weep hole right in the pic you can see, don't know if it is that or not. there is a seal in there that protects two things, the oil from the crankcase and the anti-freeze in the water pump. whichever leaks first will come out of that weep hole. there is a pressure release valve somewhere on the underside as well, incase you overfill the crankcase. there is also the shift lever seal that goes through the motor that is under the sprocket cover. just a few suggestions,

[roboto65]

Good one Chad forgot about the waterpump seal 

[hootmon]

You guys are full or great suggestions..
Yes I need to clean the motor and see if I can spot the source..

Since I changed the oil in June, there is not chance of oil overfill..

I'll update you when I know more.

[dgc67]

I am guessing the shifter seal based on posts I have read on other boards.

[hootmon]

there is a picture of the water pump - there is a weep hole right in the pic you can see, don't know if it is that or not. there is a seal in there that protects two things, the oil from the crankcase and the anti-freeze in the water pump. whichever leaks first will come out of that weep hole. there is a pressure release valve somewhere on the underside as well, incase you overfill the crankcase. there is also the shift lever seal that goes through the motor that is under the sprocket cover. just a few suggestions,

Chad - I'm pretty sure you were right.. It looks like it is coming from somewhere around the shaft that comes out of the case for the Water pump, as best as I can tell..
Anyone ever change one of these before???
Do you have to split the case??
It looks like you at least have to remove the water pump.. Anyone do this before??

Anyone have a nice used water pump they would like to sell cheap?? S
ince mine has over 70K on it.. If I can replace it while I'm in there, I may be ahead of the game later... Maybe..

Any relevant thoughts and experiences would be appreciated...

I did find this used waterpump on e-bay.. I've asked how many miles was on the bike when it was removed.. For $32, it seems like it would be a good deal since it comes with the tubes and hoses as well.

[Chad in Michigan]

that's a good price for the pump and all the stuff that comes with it, if it is low mileage from what i've seen on ebay before. is it leaking out of the weephole in the water pump? if so, it could be the o-ring seal behind it. look at the diagram in this picture:  http://www.discounthondaparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=171208&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1997&fveh=3921

i have had my water pump out, split apart, replaced all the seals and gaskets shown on that page for preventative maintenance since I was going to be over there replacing the shift star with an upgraded one from factory pro. if it is just that o-ring behind the water pump, you will have to drain the oil at the very least, carefully remove the water pump (there are two longer bolts that hold it in place that come off without taking apart the water pump itself and draining the coolant) and you can replace it after you drain the oil.  #25 is the seal behind the water pump. I had a drip-drip-drip now and then from #23 which is behind the chrome sprocket cover and is the shift shaft seal. you could also have a loose bolt #17 at the top of the chrome cover which if not tightened enough will leak oil, and there is a gasket behind it which i have heard of people having a tear in that gasket and leaking oil. that bolt has oil behind it, it must be tapped into the crankcase. to troubleshoot it further, i would say take off the chrome sprocket cover and clean up as much as you can under there and leave it parked for the night. you could have something leaking behind there dripping down to where you are seeing it puddle. hope you get it fixed

[hootmon]

I can't really tell exactly where it is coming from, but #23 and / or #25 is my guess so far.. I would replace both, since I am in there..

What does it take to replace #23?? Do I have to take #5 off, and therefore need to replace #6 as part of the process?? Does it just pop out and in, or is there more to it than that.. I just want to know what I'm up against and have all the parts on hand before I get started..

Right now I'm thinking of ordering #6, #23, and #25, plus the water pump (if reasonable mileage) - I'll probably replace the Radiator fluid (it's been a while) and capture and re-use the motor oil...

Thanx for the insight..

[Chad in Michigan]

when I replaced #23 I had it all apart and part #5 was off and in my hand. i think it could be done with it on the bike but i know it would be hard to do. that seal has a metal 'keeper' within the seal and was hard to remove off the bike. I did replace #6 gasket just because I had one. The one on the bike did not tear/rip when taking cover #5 off. I would also order #4, which is the sprocket cover gasket. It may not need to be replaced, but that is the one I heard someone had a slight tear in it and was causing a mystery leak. I've had my cover on/off about 10x now and no rips/tears or leaks. Cover #5 is not that big of deal to remove or reinstall. There is a spring on the other side that will probably hold the shaft in place, but there may be a small nylon washer (if i remember right) that may come off behind cover #5. the water pump is secured by 4 bolts, 3 of which take it apart. #31 looks to be the only one that holds it onto the rest of the motor. THe water pump shaft is slotted inside the motor to mate up with something inside, i think i is the oil pump. Make sure to try to align these marks before reinstalling.  Also, when I removed the water pump, i took off the chrome cooling pipe that was connected to the long rubber hose that connects to the water pump. I don't know if you will have to do that or not, but it came off with an 8mm bolt and i had to use a rubber mallet to knock the tube loose. there is a small, flat rubber sealing o-ring inside there that you want to get out and reinstall on the pipe and tap back into place. I'm sure you could get around that maybe by undoing the band clamps at the pump itself but looked more problematic for me without a bike lift. Lef me know if you need pictures, I think I took some while I was in there.

[hootmon]

I'd like just a little more info about #23 if possible..
So is it like a wheel bearing grease seal. Where you basically destroy it to get it out and then use like a socket to drive the new one in place so you apply equal pressure all the way around the seal? 

[Chad in Michigan]

Yeah, it was a pain to get out. first i started picking at it with a small screwdriver and then i got some of the rubber off, then noticed it had a metal band in it. finally pried out out and then tapped the new one in place with a small hammer or a socket, can't remember which. yes, the old seal will be destroyed i'm sure. mine was beyond repair

[hootmon]

I purchased the used water pump.. 19K miles says the seller who parted out the bike.
I need to go online and order all the other gaskets/seals etc..
THanx for the heads up on what to expect..