Regulator Failure's

[hootmon]

I'm new to the forum and first time Magna owner and love it.  Have a 1996 Honda Magna Pure Red.  When I got the bike I noticed the R/R wires (yellow side) where burnt in half.  I replaced the R/R and kept popping my 30a main fuse.  After a couple hours of frustration and metering all the connections on the bike I couldn't find the problem.  Then it hit me and I checked the main wiring on the new R/R and found they miss pinned the hots and grounds.  After repining the harness she took the fuse and its been happy trails since.  So all you out there going to change it out and have the same problem maybe this will keep you from those hours of frustration lol.  Funny story had to share.

Welcome to the forum from Tampa Bay, Floriduh...
Thanx for the advice...

[TLRam1]

Welcome and thanks for the excellent first post with helpful info. 

[lragan]

Well, I finally had a failure on a Regulator/Rectifier.  Riding home from Ft. Davis last September with SkyRide, the bike had trouble starting at the first stop.  Rick is a great pusher, but we finally put in a new battery.  His voltmeter showed that the old battery charged (some) but certainly did not attain the classic 14V.  Stopped at Wal-Mart, bought a new battery, poured the acid in it, and rode it home.  Rides through the winter were short, and the motor started fine, since I keep the bike on a battery maintenance charger.  

In preparation for a four day ride next week, I took the bike out for a shakedown ride, and sure enough, at the first stop, it would not start.  I had ridden most of the way behind a slow truck, engine running at maybe 2000 to 2500 rpm, with my headlight on bright and my high visibility riding lights on, so was not sure.  Fortunately, there was a hill handy for me to coast down and pop the clutch.  When I got home the battery was steady at 11.5 volts, no change when revved up.

I bought an aftermarket R/R through e-bay, paid $30 including shipping.  Claimed it fit 3rd gen Magnas.  Came in two days, with the wrong gender connector for the three wires from the stator.  Manufacturer responded immediately to my message, and offered to refund my $, and send me a shipping label so it would cost me nothing.  They did not have a unit of the other gender, and I did not need to delay further fixing the problem, so I cut the connector off the dead unit and spliced it to theirs.  It works just fine.  I relocated it to the right rear, and did not mount it under the battery case.

I got out an oscilloscope to look at the ripple waveform across the battery, thinking that perhaps one of the three legs was not feeding from the stator.  Some pretty wild looking waveforms, but the ripple was not missing any "humps" -- but the frequency was way too high by my calculation.  I checked my other bike, with the OEM R/R on it, and see the same thing.  Puzzled, I looked up in the manual replacing the stator, and, much to my surprise, see that it has 18 poles -- meaning six per phase.  So the frequency should be, at 3000 rpm 3000rpm/60 secs per minute = 50 revs per second.  Multiply by 18 poles, yields 900 Hz at 3000 rpm -- which is what it measures.

The other thing I observed, on both bikes, is that with my dual 55 watt running lights on, and the headlight on high beam, the system is just barely in regulation at 3000 rpm -- meaning that I am taking about all it will give.

I have ordered a backup R/R that claims MOS devices for less dissipation.  The photos show the correct gender on the three wire connector.  The MOS devices are only used, I believe, for the shunt regulator devices, so the dissipation at full output will not change much from the OEM design.  At lower output, the dissipation should be substantially less than the OEM part.

The aftermarket devices are amazingly low price.  I found some for $16, although the shipping was not free and would up this somewhat.  Most have the wrong gender three wire connector.   Unless I post again on this topic, assume they are working reliably.  The cases are quite similar, and the mounting holes are the same.  A few years ago, I considered designing a lower dissipation unit using MOS devices and serving this market.  Boy am I glad I did not do that!  Even manufacturing in China, the profit margin on these units has to be paper thin.

So I am in the market for LED running lights.  Not interested in paying a fortune for them.  The ones I have seen listed are all much larger than the little cheap ones I bought from Wal-Mart -- $15 at the time, still available for less than $20.  Anyone running white LEDs in the front for higher visibility?

[TLRam1]

I run clear lenses on mine so I have amber.

[MagnaMikeD]

Thanks for the write-up Lawrence.

[lragan]

Update on aftermarket R/R experience:

The $30 unit, modified with the correct gender 3-wire connector, kept my battery adequately charged for the trip to Leakey and environs.  I had noticed when I installed the unit that it only went to 13.8V at high RPM, when I expected 14.5 or so.  When I plugged in the maintenance charger after arriving home, it showed charging.   The same design charger on the other bike showed charged.  Hmmmm...

The $42 unit arrived a day or so ago, and today I tried it out.  Simply unplugged the $30 unit I had installed, plugged in the new one, and left it sitting on the battery to test.  The first thing I noticed is that the voltage started coming up at 2000 rpm.  Wow, that's different!  Usually takes about 3000 to wake it up.  And at 3000 rpm, it generated 14.6 volts.  To be sure, I plugged in the installed unit, and it only charged to 13.8 volts.  So, naturally, I exchanged the $30 unit for the $42 one -- that also has the correct gender connector out of the box.

The cases are not identical, but the hole spacing is the same on both, so the exchange took less than five minutes, by removing two bolts (recall that I built a bracket to mount it behind the right side panel). 

I put the inferior unit in my saddle bag.  It could get me home if need be.

The better unit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181322267904?item=181322267904&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:US:1120&vxp=mtr

The cheaper one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/360757066998?item=360757066998&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:US:1120&vxp=mtr

[hootmon]

Regulator, from China... what could go wong with that?   

[lragan]

They are all from China, or other Asian nations, including the $125 OEM units.

[LIMagna]

Replaced my second RR over the weekend.  I sort of knew it was going for quite a while but since it was still doing a good enough job to keep the battery charged and the weather has been just stellar this summer, I've been procrastinating the replacement up until Saturday, when I saw no green lights on my battery gauge and ended up needing a jump to get the bike home.  Fortunately, I had ordered a replacement setup a few weeks back from Jack at http://www.roadstercycle.com/.  I went with his Mosfet upgrade kit and since the regulator supplied is a bit larger than our stock units (mostly because of the plugs on one end), I fashioned a bracket from a piece of aluminum plate in order to relocate the RR to approximately the same location that has been discussed here on the forums in the past.  I used a pair of automotive hose clamps to secure the bracket to the frame and as you can see in the photo, it tucks it nicely out of the way.  The setup connects directly to the battery and requires cutting the stator wires and splicing in a new connector.  All in all, a fairly straight forward install.  Bottom line is that the voltage now appears to be extremely stable across the entire rpm range.  Even at an idle I see a reasonable charging voltage (~14.7V) from the system.  So far I'm very satisfied with the update.  

[hootmon]

Charlie - Interesting looking set-up.. If mine ever goes out again, I'm going to try to remember to look up this post!

[rrodscott]

Hello everyone. I'm new here so thanks for all the good info. Just started riding again after a bad wreck a few years back and I'm loving it. Bought a V45 last year and just bought a V30 Baby Magna a few months ago. Stored in a barn for ten years and covered with chicken poop but only 10k miles. I'm having a blast getting it back on the road. Handles great on the mountain roads around here.

[rrodscott]

Riding so much on mountain roads where there's no cell service, I freaked reading so much about RRs frying batts and leaving people stranded. Prob won't help but I installed a panel meter volt/ammeter with shunt on the V30 to monitor charging voltage and run the charging tests in the Clymer manual when I gas up, which is way too often. I'm sure this has been tried before so if anyone has any feedback on its usefulness I'd appreciate hearing from you.

[hootmon]

Riding so much on mountain roads where there's no cell service, I freaked reading so much about RRs frying batts and leaving people stranded. Prob won't help but I installed a panel meter volt/ammeter with shunt on the V30 to monitor charging voltage and run the charging tests in the Clymer manual when I gas up, which is way too often. I'm sure this has been tried before so if anyone has any feedback on its usefulness I'd appreciate hearing from you.

I've had a couple of Gen III bikes
I've been through at least 3 and maybe 4 regulators..
I added a volt meter between the gauges.. I feel much more comfortable now, constantly knowing what's going on with the regulator..
Wouldn't be without it again on a Gen III

[TLRam1]

Most of the time I carry a spare regulator with me.

[lragan]

Most of the time I carry a spare regulator with me.

As do I